Remove from mailing list

Please take me off your mailing list permanently asap.  Thanks.

 

 

  _____  

From: Adam Cooper [mailto:cooperad@bigpond.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:06 PM
To: 'Vivienne CONWAY'; 'Arch, Andrew'; 'Gregg Vanderheiden'
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

 

Hi Vivienne, 

 

With regards to 2.1.1 and 2.1.3, it might be argued that a lack of
visibility on focus does not constitute functionality as defined as
"processes and outcomes achievable through user action."  (being different
from the non-visibility of focus rectangle etc.)

 

Yes, becoming visible is an outcome achieved by user action, but can it be
said to be the function of a skip link? 

 

In which case, visibility would have no impact on conformance. 

 

However, having said this, I am yet to hear a convincing, so-called
aesthetic argument for making skip links invisible either permanently or
without focus. 

 

Always visible skip links are a useful tool for many users, not just (some)
screen reader users, despite user agent peculiarities and the sometimes poor
placement of destination anchors . 

 

My two cents worth .

Adam 

 

 

 

From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au] 
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 1:01 PM
To: Arch, Andrew; Gregg Vanderheiden
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

 

Thanks Andrew.  Yet more to think about.

 

What are your thoughts about the non-visible under focus skip links failing
2.1.1 and/or 2.1.3?

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

v.conway@ecu.edu.au

v.conway@webkeyit.com

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual
or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify
me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original
message.

 

  _____  

From: Arch, Andrew [Andrew.Arch@finance.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 10:59 AM
To: Gregg Vanderheiden
Cc: Vivienne CONWAY; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

UNCLASSIFIED

 

While test step 3 for G1 says "Check that the link is either always visible
or visible when it has keyboard focus." this  is not applicable on
touch-screen devices where there is no keyboard. With the proliferation of
tablets, smart-phones and other touch-screen devices, it makes more sense to
have them always visible now.

 

Andrew

 

---

Andrew Arch

Australian Government Information Management Office

Dept. Finance and Deregulation

www.finance.gov.au/agimo/

 

 

 

UNCLASSIFIED

 

From: gcvander@wisc.edu [mailto:gcvander@wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Gregg
Vanderheiden
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 12:11 PM
To: Roger Hudson
Cc: 'Vivienne CONWAY'; 'THOMAS,Danny'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

 

 

 

On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Roger Hudson <rhudson@usability.com.au> wrote:

 

While fully agreeing skips links should be visible, strictly speaking I
don't think there is a requirement for them to be always visible.

 

GV: that is correct.  In fact, there isn't even a requirement that there be
skip links.   Just a mechanism to get past repeated content.   I expect that
within a decade we will have some new techniques that may require little or
no effort on the part of authors.  But for now skip links are a common
technique.    And having them visible is good because people who navigate by
keyboard need them too.   But they are not required specifically and
visibility is also not required.  Best thing to do is just read the SC
carefully.  If it doesn't specifically require something -- it isn't
required.    Almost always the SC requires that something be possible but
does not require a specific way to achieve it.  

 

I am pretty sure this issue was extensively canvassed at the various stages
for comments during the preparation of WCAG 2 and many argued for visibility
to be a requirement, but without success.

 

GV:  correct.    and many argued both for and against visibility. 

 

The use of skip links is covered in 2.4.1 Bypass blocks. And advisory
technique G1 "Adding a link at top of each page that goes directly to the
content area." It is worth noting, this technique contains the following
comment: *** quote ***

However, Success Criterion 2.4.1 does not require that they be visible when
they do not have focus, and links that are visible only when they have focus
can meet this success criterion.

*** end quote***

 

GV:  yep.  it also doesn't require skip links at all.  It is just that today
-- it is the most universally supported technique.  

 

 

 

From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:v.conway@ <http://ecu.edu.au> ecu.edu.au] 
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 11:07 AM
To: THOMAS,Danny;  <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

 

I agree in the technicality of the issue, but how does the keyboard user
have access?  Isn't that the intent of the guideline at 2.1.1 and 2.1.3 - to
make sure that the keyboard user has access to all functionality?

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

 <mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au> v.conway@ecu.edu.au

 <mailto:v.conway@webkeyit.com> v.conway@webkeyit.com

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual
or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify
me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original
message.

 

  _____  

From: THOMAS,Danny [ <mailto:Danny.Thomas@deewr.gov.au>
Danny.Thomas@deewr.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 9:05 AM
To: Vivienne CONWAY;  <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

UNCLASSIFIED

Hi Vivienne,

 

Then in this case I'd say it's not a 2.1.1. If it's using a HTML anchor tag
then it passes 2.1.1 by virtue of
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/H91> sufficient
technique H91.

 

Since it uses H91, it therefore passes 2.1.1 because H91 is a standalone
sufficient technique as per the
<http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/#qr-keyboard-operation-keyboard-opera
ble> how to meet 2.1.1 article.

 

2.4.7 would be an obvious fail though.

 

Regards,


Danny.

 

Daniel Thomas
Assistant Director | Web Accessibility Policy Unit

Business Enabling Branch| Technology Solutions Group
Australian Government Department of Education, Employment and Workplace
Relations
Phone (02) 6240 2533| Fax (02) 6257 3290 | Mobile 0448 472 240

 

From: Vivienne CONWAY [ <mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au] 
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 10:50 AM
To: THOMAS,Danny;  <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

 

HI Danny

 

In this case, the keyboard user presses the tab key to start navigating
through the page and the skip links don't show when they are tabbed over.
Sometimes they show in the bottom left corner, but not always. 

 

In other words, they are there but hidden, and the keyboard user doesn't
know about them because they can't see them.  In this case, they would have
to tab through the page to get to the main content for example. 

 

2.4.7. also applies as they don't show focus, but I'm wondering about the
keyboard accessibility issue.

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

 <mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au> v.conway@ecu.edu.au

 <mailto:v.conway@webkeyit.com> v.conway@webkeyit.com

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual
or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify
me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original
message.

 

  _____  

From: THOMAS,Danny [ <mailto:Danny.Thomas@deewr.gov.au>
Danny.Thomas@deewr.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 8:46 AM
To: Vivienne CONWAY;  <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

UNCLASSIFIED

Hi Vivienne,

 

This needs a little more context. Can they not access the link or is it just
not visible?

 

If the link can technically receive focus and it's just not made obvious,
then it's a 2.4.7 not a 2.1.1.

 

Regards,


Danny.

 

Daniel Thomas
Assistant Director | Web Accessibility Policy Unit

Business Enabling Branch| Technology Solutions Group
Australian Government Department of Education, Employment and Workplace
Relations
Phone (02) 6240 2533| Fax (02) 6257 3290 | Mobile 0448 472 240

 

From: Vivienne CONWAY [ <mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au] 
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 10:29 AM
To:  <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
Subject: Skip links and keyboard navigation

 

Hi all

 

I thought I'd pass this issue past the experts in this group for your
opinion.

 

This issue involves skip links that do not appear with keyboard activation -
in other words dont' show focus either all the time or with keyboard focus.

 

Obviously if they are there and hidden, the screen reader user still hears
them, but the keyboard only user does not receive that benefit and has to
tab throughout the whole page to get to the main content.

 

G202: Ensuring keyboard control for all functionality which covers 2.1.1 and
2.1.3 says "The objective of this technique is to provide keyboard operation
for all the functionality (defined as processes and outcomes achievable
through user action) of the page."  In this case (when the keyboarder can't
access the skip links), it would appear they can't have keyboard operation
for all the functionality of the page.  What keyboarders can't do is to
access the skip links, which really benefits a keyboard only user as they
can't skip the multitude of navigational links.

 

Would you agree that this fails 2.1.1 when the keyboard operation doesn't
activate the skip links, which means that it should also fail 2.1.3? 

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

 <mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au> v.conway@ecu.edu.au

 <mailto:v.conway@webkeyit.com> v.conway@webkeyit.com

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

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