Re: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

if the person is not blind (in which case the gesture systems will move focus item by item) 
and the person is also not using a keyboard -- what do they need the skip link for? 

If they are using a touch screen as a touch screen there is no need for a skip link - is there? 

Gregg
--------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Director Trace R&D Center
Professor Industrial & Systems Engineering
and Biomedical Engineering University of Wisconsin-Madison
Technical Director - Cloud4all Project - http://Cloud4all.info
Co-Director, Raising the Floor - International - http://Raisingthefloor.org
and the Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure Project -  http://GPII.net

On Dec 5, 2012, at 8:59 PM, "Arch, Andrew" <Andrew.Arch@finance.gov.au> wrote:

> UNCLASSIFIED
>  
> While test step 3 for G1 says “Check that the link is either always visible or visible when it has keyboard focus.” this  is not applicable on touch-screen devices where there is no keyboard. With the proliferation of tablets, smart-phones and other touch-screen devices, it makes more sense to have them always visible now.
>  
> Andrew
>  
> ---
> Andrew Arch
> Australian Government Information Management Office
> Dept. Finance and Deregulation
> www.finance.gov.au/agimo/
>  
>  
>  
> UNCLASSIFIED
>  
> From: gcvander@wisc.edu [mailto:gcvander@wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 12:11 PM
> To: Roger Hudson
> Cc: 'Vivienne CONWAY'; 'THOMAS,Danny'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>  
>  
>  
> On Dec 5, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Roger Hudson <rhudson@usability.com.au> wrote:
>  
> 
> While fully agreeing skips links should be visible, strictly speaking I don’t think there is a requirement for them to be always visible.
>  
> GV: that is correct.  In fact, there isn't even a requirement that there be skip links.   Just a mechanism to get past repeated content.   I expect that within a decade we will have some new techniques that may require little or no effort on the part of authors.  But for now skip links are a common technique.    And having them visible is good because people who navigate by keyboard need them too.   But they are not required specifically and visibility is also not required.  Best thing to do is just read the SC carefully.  If it doesn’t specifically require something -- it isn't required.    Almost always the SC requires that something be possible but does not require a specific way to achieve it.  
>  
> 
> I am pretty sure this issue was extensively canvassed at the various stages for comments during the preparation of WCAG 2 and many argued for visibility to be a requirement, but without success.
>  
> GV:  correct.    and many argued both for and against visibility. 
>  
> The use of skip links is covered in 2.4.1 Bypass blocks. And advisory technique G1 “Adding a link at top of each page that goes directly to the content area.” It is worth noting, this technique contains the following comment: *** quote ***
> However, Success Criterion 2.4.1 does not require that they be visible when they do not have focus, and links that are visible only when they have focus can meet this success criterion.
> *** end quote***
>  
> GV:  yep.  it also doesn’t require skip links at all.  It is just that today -- it is the most universally supported technique.  
>  
> 
>  
>  
> From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au] 
> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 11:07 AM
> To: THOMAS,Danny; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
> Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>  
> I agree in the technicality of the issue, but how does the keyboard user have access?  Isn't that the intent of the guideline at 2.1.1 and 2.1.3 - to make sure that the keyboard user has access to all functionality?
>  
>  
> Regards
>  
> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
> PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
> v.conway@ecu.edu.au
> v.conway@webkeyit.com
> Mob: 0415 383 673
>  
> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.
>  
> From: THOMAS,Danny [Danny.Thomas@deewr.gov.au]
> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 9:05 AM
> To: Vivienne CONWAY; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
> Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
> 
> UNCLASSIFIED
> Hi Vivienne,
>  
> Then in this case I’d say it’s not a 2.1.1. If it’s using a HTML anchor tag then it passes 2.1.1 by virtue of sufficient technique H91.
>  
> Since it uses H91, it therefore passes 2.1.1 because H91 is a standalone sufficient technique as per the how to meet 2.1.1 article.
>  
> 2.4.7 would be an obvious fail though.
>  
> Regards,
> 
> Danny.
>  
> Daniel Thomas
> Assistant Director | Web Accessibility Policy Unit
> Business Enabling Branch| Technology Solutions Group
> Australian Government Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations
> Phone (02) 6240 2533| Fax (02) 6257 3290 | Mobile 0448 472 240
>  
> From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au] 
> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 10:50 AM
> To: THOMAS,Danny; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
> Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>  
> HI Danny
>  
> In this case, the keyboard user presses the tab key to start navigating through the page and the skip links don't show when they are tabbed over.  Sometimes they show in the bottom left corner, but not always. 
>  
> In other words, they are there but hidden, and the keyboard user doesn't know about them because they can't see them.  In this case, they would have to tab through the page to get to the main content for example. 
>  
> 2.4.7. also applies as they don't show focus, but I'm wondering about the keyboard accessibility issue.
>  
>  
> Regards
>  
> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
> PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
> v.conway@ecu.edu.au
> v.conway@webkeyit.com
> Mob: 0415 383 673
>  
> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.
>  
> From: THOMAS,Danny [Danny.Thomas@deewr.gov.au]
> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 8:46 AM
> To: Vivienne CONWAY; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
> Subject: RE: Skip links and keyboard navigation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
> 
> UNCLASSIFIED
> Hi Vivienne,
>  
> This needs a little more context. Can they not access the link or is it just not visible?
>  
> If the link can technically receive focus and it’s just not made obvious, then it’s a 2.4.7 not a 2.1.1.
>  
> Regards,
> 
> Danny.
>  
> Daniel Thomas
> Assistant Director | Web Accessibility Policy Unit
> Business Enabling Branch| Technology Solutions Group
> Australian Government Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations
> Phone (02) 6240 2533| Fax (02) 6257 3290 | Mobile 0448 472 240
>  
> From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au] 
> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 10:29 AM
> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list
> Subject: Skip links and keyboard navigation
>  
> Hi all
>  
> I thought I'd pass this issue past the experts in this group for your opinion.
>  
> This issue involves skip links that do not appear with keyboard activation - in other words dont' show focus either all the time or with keyboard focus.
>  
> Obviously if they are there and hidden, the screen reader user still hears them, but the keyboard only user does not receive that benefit and has to tab throughout the whole page to get to the main content.
>  
> G202: Ensuring keyboard control for all functionality which covers 2.1.1 and 2.1.3 says “The objective of this technique is to provide keyboard operation for all the functionality (defined as processes and outcomes achievable through user action) of the page.”  In this case (when the keyboarder can’t access the skip links), it would appear they can’t have keyboard operation for all the functionality of the page.  What keyboarders can’t do is to access the skip links, which really benefits a keyboard only user as they can’t skip the multitude of navigational links.
>  
> Would you agree that this fails 2.1.1 when the keyboard operation doesn’t activate the skip links, which means that it should also fail 2.1.3? 
>  
>  
> Regards
>  
> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
> PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
> v.conway@ecu.edu.au
> v.conway@webkeyit.com
> Mob: 0415 383 673
>  
> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.
>  
> This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.
> 
> CRICOS IPC 00279B
> Notice:
> The information contained in this email message and any attached files may be confidential information, and may also be the subject of legal professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying of this email is unauthorised. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by contacting the DEEWR Switchboard on 13 33 97 (1DEEWR) during business hours (8am - 5pm Local time) and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments.
>  
> This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.
> 
> CRICOS IPC 00279B
> Notice:
> The information contained in this email message and any attached files may be confidential information, and may also be the subject of legal professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying of this email is unauthorised. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by contacting the DEEWR Switchboard on 13 33 97 (1DEEWR) during business hours (8am - 5pm Local time) and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments.
>  
> This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.
> 
> CRICOS IPC 00279B
>  
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Finance Australian Business Number (ABN):   61 970 632 495
> Finance Web Site:   www.finance.gov.au
> 
> IMPORTANT:
> 
> This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. 
> If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by telephone on 61-2-6215-2222 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. 
> If responding to this email, please send to the appropriate person using the suffix .gov.au. 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> 
>