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Re: Fwd: Re: Document outline and the wrapper of the main content

From: Jamal Mazrui <empower@smart.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 11:35:06 -0400
Message-ID: <501A9E2A.1090106@smart.net>
To: mwvirant@gmail.com
CC: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
I agree.  The most screen-reader friendly approach to heading structure 
is to make the first H1 tag correspond to the main content of the page 
-- the content that differentiates that page from others on the site.


On 8/1/2012 8:59 PM, Michael Virant wrote:
> Ian Yang wrote: "There can be only one most important thing in a page 
> (imo), and that would be the company..."
> Surely (imho) the most important "thing" on a page is the "content" 
> the user has selected to digest.  The marketing department might argue 
> as Ian does however users typically dismiss logos and branding as eye 
> candy - or hurdles to overcome for non sighted users.  Ditto 
> navigation, advertisements and related content.
> As a rule I usually make the first element after the <body> tag the 
> <h1> element - the page title.  This is followed by the 
> content/article after which any frippery can be appended then 
> positioned with CSS to "appear" in the flow of the user agent.
> Branding, navigation, asides, search, footers, advertising etc are not 
> the most important elements of the document and as such should be 
> relegated to their respective position in the reading sequence.  Skip 
> links are not required making template design easier and it gives 
> users what they came here for - the content.
> Content is king
> Michael Virant
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	Re: Document outline and the wrapper of the main content
> Resent-Date: 	Wed, 01 Aug 2012 12:49:32 +0000
> Resent-From: 	w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Date: 	Wed, 1 Aug 2012 20:49:03 +0800
> From: 	Ian Yang <ian@invigoreight.com>
> To: 	Ramón Corominas <listas@ramoncorominas.com>
> CC: 	w3c-wai-ig@w3.org list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Ramón Corominas 
> <listas@ramoncorominas.com <mailto:listas@ramoncorominas.com>> wrote:
>     Indeed, it is correct. Why should the MAIN content be under the
>     "branding"?
>     Moreover, screen reader users would expect level-1 headings to
>     mark the most important contents of the document, which in my
>     opinion can be the "branding & navigation" section (understood as
>     "the interface") and the "main article" (understood as "the
>     specific piece of information this document represents"). And
>     thus, the "complementary content" is dependant of -probably- the
>     main content, that is, it supplements the main information.
>     According to WebAIM's survey, screen reader users have also
>     considered that the "two-h1" structure is better than a single-h1 one.
>     However, I have not seen that debate of "div instead of article",
>     and in fact I think it is wrong to use <div>, although not because
>     of the sectioning levels, but because "article" can better
>     represent the "individual piece of information", which can then be
>     re-used in other parts of the website or other documents. Thus,
>     for me the real problem is that using <article> the main heading
>     would be always of level-2, which would not convey (in my opinion)
>     its importance.
>     Regards,
>     Ramón.
> Hi Ramón,
> The company, or the branding, is the parent of everything. Everything 
> is derived from it. Therefore nothing can be at the same level as it 
> and the main content should be under it. (in my opinion)
> There can be only one most important thing in a page (imo), and that 
> would be the company, or the branding. While "two-h1" may be 
> considered better by some screen reader users, that's not 
> hierarchically correct. (imo)
> The example of HTML5 spec 
> <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/single-page.html#the-nav-element> uses 
> <div> as the wrapper of the main content. And Ian Hixie said use <div> 
> if a wrapper is a must, too. I have seen some other discussions on the 
> internet but can't find them right now.
> Sincerely,
> Ian Yang
Received on Thursday, 2 August 2012 15:35:44 UTC

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