- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 12:05:31 +0100
- To: Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org>
- Cc: Ramón Corominas <listas@ramoncorominas.com>, Glen Wallis <glen.wallis@gmail.com>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CA+ri+Vm2AaBK=Qn9eeg9TB=VfiqwJFHpyA5uc349oOPwXkbr4A@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Harry, i don't see how your example helps. The use of value=search does not provide an accessible name for the control. the addition of label around the input does nothing as far as I can tell. adding value=search means users have to clear the field text before they input it. perhaps using placeholder would provide the visible label (in supporting browsers) <input type="text" id="search" title="search" placeholder="search"> regards stevef On 28 May 2012 11:45, Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org> wrote: > Hi Steve > I agree that there are situations where a visual label element is not > appropriate. > > However, instead of <input type=text title=search> > <button>search</search> (your example), why not use <label><input > type="text" id="search" value="search"></label><button>search</button>? > > Regards, Harry > > > On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> Hi Harry, >> >> the problem from a design point of view is that in some circumstances a >> visual label is not appropriate as it is redundant. So where design >> dictates that a label is inappropriate, use of the title or aria-label or >> aria-labelldby provides an accessible name. >> >> Dragon has access to the accessible name information via the >> accessibility API, it is up to the user agent in this case to provide the >> access to the control. >> >> I understand what labels do and as a general rule they should be used for >> the reasons you cite, but for example in many applications where a data >> grid is used containing both read only text and form fields (example refer >> to: Form controls in data tables: >> http://www.usability.com.au/resources/wcag2/) then inclusion of a label >> for each control is a non starter. >> >> >> regards >> steveF >> >> >> >> On 28 May 2012 10:51, Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Steve >>> The problem as a I see it if title is used instead of label, is that the >>> functionality that comes with label, i.e., being able to click on it and >>> place focus in the associated field element, is lost. Thus a Dragon user >>> will have to execute multiple commands to achieve what they could have >>> achieved with a single command. Similarly, users using magnification, can >>> click on the label, when they've read it, and place the focus in the form >>> field, without having to scroll horizontally. >>> This capability is lost when the title attribute is used on the physical >>> form element. >>> Harry >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Steve Faulkner < >>> faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Harry, >>>> >>>> Providing a control with an accessible name is a level A requirement: >>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#ensure-compat >>>> using label or title provides a programmatically associated accessible >>>> name for a control. The information is provided by the browsers through the >>>> accessibility API Dragon can access this infromation, if it does not expose >>>> it to the user its a bug in Dragon, not in WCAG 2.0. >>>> >>>> The use of title is only recommended under specific circumstances when >>>> a visible label would be redundant. >>>> >>>> example: >>>> >>>> <input type=text title=search> <button>search</search> >>>> >>>> regards >>>> SteveF >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28 May 2012 09:13, Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ramón Corominas wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Which makes me wonder why it is acceptable (and even promoted) to use >>>>>> the title instead of a <label> for form controls. Don't we have techniques >>>>>> to hide labels preserving their accessibility? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Who and why would anyone want to promote a non-accessible technique? >>>>> 'label' is an essential navigation mechanism for people using all kinds of >>>>> AT, as I observed, once again, while testing software with a Dragon user. >>>>> 'label' is even more important than 'alt'!!! While I can describe the >>>>> contents of an image in the content, or even use the 'title' attribute, >>>>> without losing functionality, whereas without the 'label' attribute I have >>>>> reduced functionality and reduced mobility. >>>>> >>>>> Failure to use 'label', if it is not already so, should be a Level A >>>>> infringement! >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> with regards >>>> >>>> Steve Faulkner >>>> Technical Director - TPG >>>> >>>> www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com | >>>> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner >>>> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - >>>> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ >>>> Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> with regards >> >> Steve Faulkner >> Technical Director - TPG >> >> www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com | >> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner >> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - >> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ >> Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html >> >> >> > -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com | www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Monday, 28 May 2012 11:06:46 UTC