RE: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order

Roger,

Ø  When it comes to structural labels I feel removing them from the
display area is not a problem since there are sufficient visual clues to
the different components of the page.



One of the benefits of checkpoint
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#navigation-mechanisms-desc
riptive> 2.4.6 Headings and Labels: Headings and
<http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-descripti
ve.html#labeldef> labels describe topic or purpose. (Level AA) is that
they are visually on the screen.   If a browser lists the off-screen
headings in a list of the user to choose, how will a low vision user match
up the on-screen content to the list of off-screen headings?  Adding the
proper heading text on-screen and through markup will benefit a large
audience of people with disabilities.



Jonathan



From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Roger Hudson
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:44 PM
To: 'Jonathan Avila'; 'richarduserite'
Cc: 'WAI Interest Group'
Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order



I agree that display:none is definitely problematic and the use of CSS to
position skip links off and on screen is better. However, I feel that the
best option of all is to display well worded skip links all the time. When
it comes to structural labels I feel removing them from the display area
is not a problem since there are sufficient visual clues to the different
components of the page.



This issue also relates to SC 2.4.1 see techniques:


G1: Adding a link at the top of each page that goes directly to the main
content area


H69: Providing heading elements at the beginning of each section of
content



For what it is worth, several years ago Russ Weakley and I did some
research into the use of skip links and structural labels by screen reader
users. A report can be found at
<http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm>
http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm



Regards

Roger







  _____

From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 10:46 PM
To: 'richarduserite'; 'Mag Leahy'
Cc: 'Ramón Corominas'; 'WAI Interest Group'
Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order



Richard,

Ø  I need to do some thinking about this because it is not only blind
users who need to use the skip links anchor. It needs to be available to
anyone who does not have access to a mouse.

You could use CSS to position the link on-screen when it is focused and
off-screen when it is not focused.



Ø  Headings for navigation menus is a WAI requirement.

What requirement are you referring to?



Jonathan



From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of richarduserite
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:48 AM
To: Mag Leahy
Cc: Ramón Corominas; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order



Hi Mag,



Thanks for that, it is interesting,  Jaws 7 does announce hidden anchors,
but I have done a bit of research
(http://juicystudio.com/article/screen-readers-display-none.php) and you
are right. It seems that display:none is not reliable with some screen
readers. I need to do some thinking about this because it is not only
blind users who need to use the skip links anchor. It needs to be
available to anyone who does not have access to a mouse.



I also use display:none for headings of lists (e.g navigation menus) in
the belief that all screen readers will read the heading. Headings for
navigation menus is a WAI requirement.



Richard

----- Original Message -----

From: Mag Leahy <mailto:magleahy@gmail.com>

To: richarduserite <mailto:richard@userite.com>

Cc: Ramón <mailto:listas@ramoncorominas.com>  Corominas ; WAI
<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>  Interest Group

Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:23 PM

Subject: [Spam] Re: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order



Hello all,

Please note, do not use display:none as it will not be available to screen
reader users.
Use negative positioning e.g.

.removed {
    left:-900000px; /* accessible display:none - read by screenreaders */
    position:absolute !important;
    width:1px;
    font-size:1px;
}

Note this assumes it will never be visually on the page when css is on
hence the width and font-size.

Cheers,
Mag

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:13 PM, richarduserite <richard@userite.com>
wrote:

Hi,

By hiding the link using CSS hides it from visual users, but not from
assistive software such as screen readers. Thus the link is still
accessible
for blind people. However a sighted user who uses the keyboard (there are
many) will not see the link and be forced to tab through all your
navigation
links in order to reach your content. Ideally, therefore, the "Skip to
content" link should be visible so that sighted keyboard users can make
use
of it as well as blind users.

If you need to use CSS to hide the link from mouse users the easiest
solution is to use the CSS pseudoclass a:active to make the link text
visible when it is focused by the keyboard user. Note that positioning the
link off the page as you suggest is not the best way to hide such a link.
Some visual browsers do not accept negative dimensions and therefore can
distort your page layout. It is much safer to use CSS to hide an element
(display:none), perhaps create a class to do this

.skip a:link {display: none ; }
.skip a:active { display:block ; }

then you link would be
<a href="#content" class="skip" tabindex="1" >Skip to content</a>

Also note that you do not need to use the tabindex attribute. In fact it
is
better if you avoid tabindex altogether (it takes control away from the
user).

Best wishes
Richard


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ramón Corominas" <listas@ramoncorominas.com>
To: "WAI Interest Group" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:38 PM
Subject: Success Criterion 2.4.7. Focus Order


> Hi, all.
>
> I'm reading the Understanding SC 2.4.7 about Focus Order, and I'm in
> doubt about what is the meaning of "having a mode of operation that...".
>
> For instance, if I have a hidden "skip to contents" link (via css
> off-left), when a user tabs to this link the focus will not be visible;
> but if the user disables CSS, in this "mode" the link will be visible
> and also the focus. My question is: would this be considered valid?
> Should we show all the links to comply with this criterion? Are
> css-hidden links forbidden?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ramón.
>
>
>




--
Mag