- From: Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>
- Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:00:16 +0200
- To: "John Foliot - WATS.ca" <foliot@wats.ca>, "'Patrick Lauke'" <P.H.Lauke@salford.ac.uk>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Summary: Accesskeys are a good idea. Bad implementation both in the spec and in browsers makes them less than they should be, and can cause problems, but I still like being able, as an end user, to use them. (Use the rel attribute first, where there is a rel defined for what you are trying to do, though). Detail is commented inline: On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:17:09 +0200, My friend John Foliot wrote: > <rant> > > Correct me if I'm wrong: One of the cornerstones of accessible, modern > web > development is to strive for user agent agnostic development practices. > Why is it then that we > somehow feel compelled to impose our keystroke navigation scheme upon the > end user? Who asked us? Is anybody *really* making use of Accesskeys Yes, as an end user I REALLY appreciate them when I have an interface that makes them work. I stuck with iCab as my primary browser for a long time when it was clear that it was not developing at any realistic rate and was failing to meet more and more of my requirements because the one thing it had was the best accesskey implementation I have ever used. Opera's interface allows me to do lots of really useful things with the keyboard, so requires a trigger key for accesskeys. The only thing I need is to know which accesskeys are available (there are a couple of different ways to do this, by the way - style sheets, or userJS seem the most obvious candidates. I lean towards userJS because it makes it easy enough to remap the keys to suit me, then letting me know what the available keys are. If I figure this out, or am lucky enough to convince someone to figure it out for me first, I will tell you where it is on http://userjs.org > For more than five years now we have consistently stated that while we > acknowledge the potential usefulness of providing a means to assist users > who navigate via the keyboard, accesskeys are fundamentally flawed and > should be avoided. And we, as in you and I, have argued this back and forth... > * We've argued against them from the perspective of technology > (conflicts, conflict resolution, etc.); Yes. Since they are normally overridden, it seems not to be a big deal. UBAccess' pagemap provided a nice way of putting them in or taking them out, having customised them to your own needs. That's the kind of approach that I hope to have in userJS although that will be an Opera-specific repair for the page - the benefit of a server-side solution was that it worked for all browsers. > * We've offered ideas on alternate schemes (<link rel>); We have agreed that it makes more sense to use a link rel where there is a defined rel already. But there are not that many of those - there will always be situations where authors have something important in the context of their site, which is not going to be important in a million other sites which have a similar link. > * We've pointed out that the W3C is moving to DEPRECATE the accesskey > attribute in XHTML 2; There is a group in WAI called the Protocols and Formats group. That group has worked on trying to get a decent solution to accesskey in other W3C specifications, and it seems likely that XHTML 2 will in fact have something similar but smarter... > * We've reported on the proposed XHTML 2 "access" attribute (which > suggests to allow the end user to map their own keystrokes to a > pre-determined set of access points - currently being defined as "Roles" > in the XHTML 2 draft); > * We've discussed the point that many users cannot or will not begin to > memorize a random list of keystrokes for different web sites; > * We've observed that the majority of Adaptive Technology users have > already been provided alternative methods of inter-page navigation, > further reducing the need for Accesskeys for this user-group (which is > often the same group that proponents are allegedly striving to help). I do not believe that accesskeys are very relevant to blind users. They will in some cases learn them for frequently visited sites, if they get a decent implementation to start with, but for the most part they won't. On the other hand for various groups of people who type, and have problems with their hands, accesskeys are important. Which makes it all the more frustrating that they are so badly implemented in some browsers that people like John have a reasonable argument for suggesting they should be avoided. (Please listen to my even more reasonable argument, not John's, and use them in your sites. This makes it easier to argue for effort being spent on better implementation in browsers, which will make them serve better the goal they were designed for... :-) cheers Chaals -- Charles McCathieNevile chaals@opera.com hablo español - je parle français - jeg lærer norsk Here's one we prepared earlier: http://www.opera.com/download
Received on Thursday, 2 June 2005 22:00:31 UTC