Re: alt text & punctuation - best practice?

I did say in the archives of this list I did not say in the guidelines.
There should be a guideline that says this.  AS far as ads go, if they want
us to read them, they will need to do it right.  Often, when I com across a
pictorial ad on the web, I hear graphic and nothing else.  Who looses?  If
you use the alt attrib for huge blocks of imaged content, it gets cut off by
my user agent.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Kurt_Mattes@bankone.com>
To: <poehlman1@comcast.net>; <Rebecca.Cox@intergen.co.nz>;
<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: alt text & punctuation - best practice?




> an image should not have words in it in the first place for reasons that
are
> well documented in the archives of this list.

Could you point me to a specific guideline that covers this statement?
Perhaps those who manage this site - http://www.w3.org/ should be informed
of your thoughts.  I see several images with words in them.

> If you have full sentences in images, you need to use another
> form to display them which has not been satisfactorily worked out yet.

And in the interim we should...?  There are millions of ads on the web that
use images.  Are you suggesting all of these should be eliminated?




-----Original Message-----
From: david poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 9:41 AM
To: Mattes, Kurt (Bank One); Rebecca.Cox@intergen.co.nz;
w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: alt text & punctuation - best practice?


an image should not have words in it in the first place for reasons that are
well documented in the archives of this list.  This has much to do wht
machine processable data and with people using low vision at to interact
with the web.  If you have full sentences in images, you need to use another
form to display them which has not been satisfactorily worked out yet.
There is also another reason for not putting words in images hence in alt
text where they should go which is that there is a max length to an alt
attrig and the textual content of the image can well acceed that max.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Kurt_Mattes@bankone.com>
To: <poehlman1@comcast.net>; <Rebecca.Cox@intergen.co.nz>;
<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: alt text & punctuation - best practice?



> <img src="w3.gif" alt="W3C leading the web to its full potential">
> *dp* this is not a full sentence and an alt tag should never be a full
> sentance.

Why?  If the image an alt refers to contains a complete sentence,
shouldn't the alt tag?


Kurt Mattes
Application Development Analyst
Technical Lead - Web Accessibility
[302] 282-1414 * Kurt_Mattes@BankOne.com


-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of david poehlman
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 8:42 AM
To: Rebecca Cox; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: alt text & punctuation - best practice?



see comments inline marked with *dp*.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rebecca Cox" <Rebecca.Cox@intergen.co.nz>
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:38 PM
Subject: alt text & punctuation - best practice?


Hi all,

I am working with some guidelines on alt text and just wanted to see
what people feel is current best practice with regard to adding
punctuation to force a pause - for example, in these situations what
would be the preferred technique?

1. For short alt text on an image which may or may not be a link:

Either, just the text, no extra punctuation:

<a href="news.html"><img src="news.gif" alt="News"></a>
*dp* extend the link to include a bit of text such as news before the
closing marker.  For alt texsts period which should be short at any rate, no
punctuation should be required at all.  Remember, some people are going to
be transcribing this stuff into braille or printing it out on a printer in
text form and also, the kiss factor, people will wonder as they look at this
stuff, what is this punctuation mark here for?  Most if not all user
agent/at combinations can let us know that we are looking at a "graphic"
"bmp" whatever they designate it as.

Or with full stop and space, like so:

<a href="news.html"><img src="news.gif" alt="News. "></a>

*dp* I would go on to say that an image in an href which has a fully marked
up container such as the above should be null alted because the text belongs
in the link, not in the alt and the link text should stand for the alt in
that there should be nothing in the image that conveys anything that cannot
be put into the link text.

2. For longer alt text which should read like a sentence:

Either:

<img src="w3.gif" alt="W3C leading the web to its full potential">
*dp* this is not a full sentence and an alt tag should never be a full
sentance.

Or:
*dp* no punctuation is required see above.

<img src="w3.gif" alt="W3C leading the web to its full potential. ">


3. For alt text on an image which functions as a section heading:

Either:

<h2><img src="about.gif" alt="About the council"></h2>

Or:

<h2><img src="about.gif" alt="About the council. "></h2>

*dp* Again, there are ways to find headings in current at and in some way
back so punctuation is not necessary.  Mark a heading up in the same way you
would mark the beginning of a section in a text book since it may be
brailled or printed.  We've lived quite well with headings and alt tags
being non differentiated in this way and this is the least of the auditory
inaccessibility we have to contend with.  Authors have enough to contend
with as it is and if you want to raise the hackles of the balancers, start
adopting things like this and you will.  This is not to say that hackles
should not be raised appropriately though.

g'day!
Cheers all,


Rebecca Cox
Production Designer

INTERGEN - Intelligent Business
Level 3, Intergen House, 44-52 The Terrace
PO Box 5428, Wellington, New Zealand




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Received on Monday, 21 June 2004 18:22:43 UTC