- From: Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com>
- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:30:36 -0700
- To: Tim Roberts <tim@wiseguysonly.com>
- Cc: James Craig <work@cookiecrook.com>, tina@greytower.net, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 02:04 PM, Tim Roberts wrote: > Should we not encourage developers to write well-formed code. Sure, we should. But you can write properly valid SGML-based HTML, too. > It is similar to saying it is ok to produce written material if some > of the print is smudged or a page is upside down. Is it really fair on > the people we are producing content for. Fair? This isn't an issue of fairness. Do you believe that if some of the print is smudged, nobody should be able to view any of the printed material? For example, if page 241 of the latest Harry Potter is printed upside down, should you be unable to read ANYTHING in the book? If you believe that is the correct standard to use, then you should be using XHTML. > In accessibility we are working towards getting things as "good as we > can for the greatest number of users". And in reality, who has an > XHTML browser that will not display an XHTML page correctly. Who has that? I don't know. But if your browser still displays XHTML which is not well-formed, then you have a _broken_ XHTML browser. Consider the following snippet: <p> This is a great page: <a href="http://www.w3.org/">The <abbr title="World Wide Web Consortium">W3C's Home Page </a> </p> Let's say that's on a large page of content. What should be done here? In HTML, the browser is able to use the SGML techniques of assuming that something was left off, and attempt to recover. The page will be displayed in some form, even if it's off a little. In XHTML, the browser is _not_ allowed to do this. It is a _violation_ of XML (and thus of XHTML) to attempt to display the page. It is an XML _fatal error_. An XHTML browser that does anything except refuse to display the page above is in violation of the XHTML and XML specifications. > The reason that badly formed XHTML still displays fine in browsers is > for the allowances originally made for bad HTML coding. If we think > that poor mark up is fine then lets open the floodgates to a horde of > Front Page sites and build sites that don't hold up across browsers. > That is not accessibility. This is not an argument for XHTML vs. HTML. This is simply an argument against poorly written HTML. It's also a non-sensical argument, since no one is arguing for "Front Page sites." Please choose one of the following, before we continue with this discussion: (1) XHTML pages which forget a closing </abbr> tag should never display, or (2) XHTML pages which forget a closing </abbr> tag should be displayed in some way to compensate for the mistake. If you argue the second, by your logic, you're arguing "for bad HTML" and thus comes the floodgate. If you're arguing for the former, why exactly would you want this? The fact that there's no position you can take here should be a hint -- there is no inherent superiority to XHTML 1.0 over HTML 4.01, and in fact there is a great argument to be made for HTML simply because of the requirement in XML that well-formedness problems are fatal errors. --Kynn -- Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com> http://kynn.com Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain http://idyllmtn.com Author, CSS in 24 Hours http://cssin24hours.com Inland Anti-Empire Blog http://blog.kynn.com/iae Shock & Awe Blog http://blog.kynn.com/shock
Received on Wednesday, 25 June 2003 17:25:08 UTC