- From: Nissen, Dan E <Dan.Nissen@UNISYS.com>
- Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:28:05 -0500
- To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
All, I think there is a bit of "jumping to conclusions" here. First, the IRS forms online are not usually filled in online, they are set up to be printed and filled in offline, even by non-disabled people. Then, they are sorted into the correct paper form order by number, and you add the W2 form, and any other paper forms, documents, explanations, you may be required to supply, put the mailing label on the front page from your mailing, put it in a big envelope and mail it to one of the many service centers. There, they run huge Kodak scanners, and read the forms and the data and file the paper, etc. This is not an online service. And, the forms that are printed on the personal computer should look just like the forms you get at the post office or in the mail, thus the use of PDF that is very capable in getting scanable documents. Accepting tax returns from the Internet is a good idea, but one that has not come to the IRS center near you yet. I don't do much of that any more. I use TurboTax to do the forms filling in, because it handles the arithmetic, is hooked to Quicken where I keep my personal financial records, downloads the financial records from some of my brokers, etc. If I was brave, I'd do the eFile that is included in the $20 or so I pay for TurboTax each year. But, I'm not brave, so I print the schedules front TurboTax and mail them. So, I'd be more concerned about whether we are getting an accessible version of TurboTax available, or if the IRS is going to build a web site that does all the things that TurboTax does. I'd like to have the IRS replace TurboTax, not supply accessible ways to print paper forms. But, they have chosen to do that through partners. Regards, Dan -----Original Message----- From: David Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:37 AM To: Simon White; WAI List Subject: Re: washingtonpost.com 'Talking' Tax Forms For Blind Developed.ht m in the case of these particular pdf documents, they are not accessible outside their environment. In the case of pdfs in general, you must create them with specific mark up in specific tools in order that they are optimized for accessibility which in this case means that there are two screen readers whose more recent itterations allow some sort of access. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon White" <simon.white@jkd.co.uk> To: "WAI List" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:49 AM Subject: RE: washingtonpost.com 'Talking' Tax Forms For Blind Developed.ht m Dear All, Slightly off the topic, but this minimum accessibility seems to be the problem with UK government sites as well. By this I mean that PDF meets the minimum requirements for accessibility on government sites (usually a minimum of single-A compliance) also noted by the statement that Joel cut and paste onto his last email: "As new publications become available in Acrobat 5.0, which is 508 compliant, they will be posted on the site." So, Acrobat is 508 compliant but is it accessible? I would state that it is not fully accessible, like HTML, and therefore it is not the best solution for filing tax returns online. In the UK we have a single-A compliance threshold, although I do want to say that the vast majority of UK government websites use HTML for forms rather than PDF (or offer both so that the user can choose). I guess it is the usual <interpretation of standards> that is at play here. In addition, aren't PDF documents only accessible if they have been created correctly in Acrobat and the client-side reader only plays a small part in allowing access to the information with assistive technologies? Just a bunch of my thoughts on the subject, I am not au fait with American tax filing so I cannot comment on the systems they might be using or what might best apply in your Tax system. Kind regards to all Simon -----Original Message----- From: SHARPE, Ian [mailto:Ian.SHARPE@cambridge.sema.slb.com] Sent: 30 August 2002 15:26 To: WAI List Subject: RE: washingtonpost.com 'Talking' Tax Forms For Blind Developed.ht m Am I missing something? Firstly, the article doesn't explain how the technology works or what the technology used is? I can't see what is going on from "he clicked on the form and the he heard, First Name"? Secondly, for $2,000 per form I'll offer them a full HTML conversion service and pay someone else to take the information and fill out the form!! OK, there's privacy issues but it wouldn't be hard to automate a process to automatically fill out the PDF forms anyway. As someone else has pointed out, it depends how they are storing the information back end anyway? If they're storing it in another system then it surely doesn't matter how the information gets there? Cheers Ian -----Original Message----- From: Joel Ward [mailto:ward_joel@bah.com] Sent: 30 August 2002 14:40 To: WAI List Subject: Re: washingtonpost.com 'Talking' Tax Forms For Blind Developed.htm > easy answer to your last question, that is what the decided to do years > ago so rather than find a real solution they decided to cludge. Html > would have been vastly superior and there are many other things they > could have done and can do, but dispite frequent pounding on them, they > like some other agencies have stayed a particular course for what ever > reasons but the bottom line is that the consumer looses in the end. The > gains in this case apparently are the same forms can be served to all > and pdf is their favorite route so they can still use it. They have a > lot of money tied up in it apparently. Could they provide both a PDF forms and HTML forms to cover all the bases? And both would integrate into the same back-end system? Maybe they do? Maybe they're going that way? Standard web forms would no only help assistive technology users, but also text browser users, PDA users, WebTV users, and anyone else who can't run Acrobat. BTW, I found this on the IRS web site's accessibility page: http://www.irs.gov/accessibility/display/0,,i1%3D43%26genericId%3D10167, 00.h tml <snippet> Persons using screen-reading devices, who generally cannot directly read documents in PDF format, will find a HTML version of many of the forms and the publications on the IRS site. Over the next several months, the IRS plans to make all PDF files accessible. As new publications become available in Acrobat 5.0, which is 508 compliant, they will be posted on the site. For information on Forms and Publications Accessibility: The IRS Alternative Media Center has prepared hundreds of its most popular tax forms, instructions, and tax publications using full text descriptions where needed and is making these files available for download through the IRS web site. Adobe Acrobat PDF format has been used as a means of distributing government forms as well as other documents. </snippet> BTW, I checked their forms section and selected a few forms to see what formats they had available. Of the dozen I selected, none had any other formats than PDF. Where are the HTML versions they speak of? Even the "list of forms you can fill-in using your computer" are all PDFs. I guess the eFile program offers some forms online. But none are through the IRS itself, and some cost money. Maybe that's why the IRS is reluctant? _________________________________________________________ This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of SchlumbergerSema. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600. _________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ VirusChecked by the Incepta Group plc _____________________________________________________________________
Received on Friday, 30 August 2002 12:28:14 UTC