- From: jonathan chetwynd <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:49:07 +0100
- To: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
- Cc: "David Woolley" <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
charles, not sure where you got the file size from. My estimate goes something like this 50k / 10 images = 5k however svg will have problems fitting into this, unless the file size is ~1k which does seem feasible your example is something nearer 60k which is fine for a single image, but may not work so well for sprites, have you thought this thru? or perhaps youre not too concerned for 56k users? did you give celinea a try out? I can't get it to function at all, but that may well be me http://www.celinea.com/ jonathan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org> To: "jonathan chetwynd" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com> Cc: "David Woolley" <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk>; <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:14 PM Subject: Re: do vector graphics enhance our concept of self? > Well, jpeg itself doesn't have transparency, nor allow animation of parts of > the picture. So it isn't going to help you, and rather than trying to rebuild > jpeg from the ground up for technical reasons it seems smarter to use SVG > (the specification requires support of jpeg, so you don't lose anything that > jpeg already provided). In fact if you want to convert an SVG to a jpeg (and > lose the transparency and other neat features - I'll try to make an animated > example) there is a tool available as part of the Batik toolkit. > > I think you should be moaning about the fact that your browser doesn't yet > ship with SVG. (Some browsers do, of course). > > (It is possible in some versions of HTML to have a plugin downloaded > automatically, but unfortunately you don't get to choose which of the systems > that can handle a particular format is installed. Fine for most people, but > it means that someone can't easily choose a more suitable plugin for their > needs. Further development - see http://www.w3.org/TR/CX if you're > fascinated) > > Cheers > > Chaals > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, jonathan chetwynd wrote: > > >Chaals > > > >Well it does look impressive, > >so I'm stuck moaning about the failure of an easy way to degrade to jpeg. > > > >thanks again > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org> > >To: "jonathan chetwynd" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com> > >Cc: "David Woolley" <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk>; <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> > >Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:48 PM > >Subject: Re: do vector graphics enhance our concept of self? > > > > > >> I have attached an SVG image. The file size is a bit bigger than the > >listed > >> 3.2k, because it downloads two jpeg images. > >> > >> But it shows photo-realistic transparent jpegs which can be animated to > >move > >> around like sprites. > >> > >> This was generated by Jim Ley's annotation tool - you load up a jpeg and > >> trace around the bit you want, then say who it is. > >> > >> I found it by looking through his search tool - > >> http://www.jibbering.com/rdf/foafwho.html > >> > >> The one modification I made to the code was to change the opacity value - > >it > >> had opacity="1" for both photos, and for one I made it opacity="0.5" (1 > >means > >> not at all transparent, 0 means completely transparent). It is not > >difficult > >> to adapts Nick's tool to do this by default, or as an option. > >> > >> What this shows is that with SVG you can easily select a piece of a jpeg > >you > >> want, and use it as a photo-realistic transparent animated sprite. It adds > >> around 1-2k per image. It works in the Adobe SVG plugin (available for > >many > >> browsers - I used it in iCab on MacOSX but it works in Explorer, Netscape, > >> and compatible browsers. I haven't tested this yet in other substantial > >SVG > >> browsers such as Batik but expect it to work fine). > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Chaals > >> > >> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, jonathan chetwynd wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >Unfortunately, given our obsession with identity, if SVG is not capable > >of > >> >photorealistic representation, in a small file size, then we might then > >seem > >> >to need a (jpeg like?) high compression format, with transparency, and > >> >capable of scaling. Alternatively if it were capable, perhaps a camera, > >or > >> >at least a conversion tool would be extremely popular. > >> > > >> >In terms of images, bandwidth and accessibility, this may well be one of > >the > >> >critical areas for development in the near future. > >> >many images are just not accessible. > >> > > >> >jonathan > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >From: "David Woolley" <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk> > >> >To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> > >> >Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 10:33 PM > >> >Subject: Re: do vector graphics enhance our concept of self? > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> > Can anyone point to realistic vector portraits, with a small file > >size? > >> >> > >> >> That's really a research topic for low bandwidth telephones, although > >> >> the games people may also have something, but I suspect it is > >> >> proprietory and may still require a texture map, as JPEG etc. > >> >> > >> >> It seems to me, though that this mailing list is not a good place for > >> >> asking the question. If you are lucky, someone will know, but you > >> >> are not targetting the question well. > >> >> > >> >> I'd try the BT Research web site, as they were interested in this sort > >> >> of thing at one time. TV broadcasters may be as well. > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Charles McCathieNevile http://www.w3.org/People/Charles phone: +61 409 > >134 136 > >> W3C Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI fax: +33 4 92 > >38 78 22 > >> Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia > >> (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, > >France) > >> > > > > > > -- > Charles McCathieNevile http://www.w3.org/People/Charles phone: +61 409 134 136 > W3C Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI fax: +33 4 92 38 78 22 > Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia > (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France) >
Received on Tuesday, 30 July 2002 08:49:23 UTC