Re: Accessible _content_ management

Andrew, This is my point though I may have made it badly.  What you
describe is something that has been addressed in a number of ways here
and elsewhere and it is a matter of style which in your example we would
call bad style for the reasons you site.  Assistive technology is not
the only cause of a conundrum with this style.  We do not seek redress
through a "skip nav" link, we seek redress through better style.  This
makes things more usefull to all.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" <andrew_kirkpatrick@wgbh.org>
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Cc: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible _content_ management


David,
I would say that the information is not accessible to the person you
describe below, and I would agree that it is not useable for that
reason.
However, even if the information was available for that person's tools,
it
wouldn't necessarily be very usable, would it?

An additional example that I think about when trying to make a
distinction
between accessibility and usability is a Web page with a very long top
navigation -- 50 links before the content.  Is this an accessibility
issue
or a usability issue?  You could argue that this page is accessible
(let's
assume that it is standard, valid XHTML), but that for people using
assistive technologies, this page has usability issues.  Yes, you can
get
all of the information, but it is a pain to do so.

Andrew


On 6/30/02 11:20 PM,  David Poehlman (poehlman1@comcast.net) wrote:

> ...also applies to the output of a software product for instance, If
the
> output is accessible/available but not usable by someone either
because
> it is proprietary or is not manipulatible by available tools,
available
> being person centric, that information is not accessible in the sense
in
> which we form the answer to the question of what is accessible.


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" <andrew_kirkpatrick@wgbh.org>
> To: "wai-ig list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 9:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Accessible _content_ management
>
>
>
> This brings up a question of semantics -- does accessibility imply
> "usable by a person with a disability" or
> just that the "information is available to people with disabilties (or
> their user agents)"?
>
> If you believe that accessiblity is simply making the information
> (content, structure) available for users, then
> the greater challenge is ensuring that the information is provided in
> such a way so that all users, including
> those with disabilities can easily understand and make use of the
> information.  For example, FrontPage
> might have every aspect of the application be designed so that the
> information in each dialog box and
> interface element is available.  If a user with a screen reader needed
> to access a part of the interface that
> allows him to insert a link into a web page, but it was very difficult
> to find (it worked fine once found), is the
> application less accessible, or less useable for that person?
>
> In the end, I believe that we are all interested in the same end
point,
> but I find it useful to have clarity on
> this point, particularly when talking with people not regularly
involved
> with accessibility.  Does accessibility
> fall under usability or does it exist along side usability, but
focused
> on people with disabilities?  I'm interested
> to hear what others think about this.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
>
> 6/29/2002 2:07:44 PM, kynn-eda@idyllmtn.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Jon wrote:
>>> Thought for today:
>>> Which is more accessible; Notepad or FrontPage?
>>
>> Accessible by _whom_?  That the question -- accessibility does not
>> exist in a vacuum, it is a function involving human beings.
>>
>> --Kynn
>>
>>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
> 125 Western Ave.
> Boston, MA  02134
> E-mail: andrew_kirkpatrick@wgbh.org
> Web site: ncam.wgbh.org
>
>
>
>

--
Andrew Kirkpatrick
CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
125 Western Ave.
Boston, MA  02134
E-mail: andrew_kirkpatrick@wgbh.org
Web site: ncam.wgbh.org

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Received on Monday, 1 July 2002 09:32:56 UTC