- From: gregory j. rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 18:03:00 -0400 (EDT)
- To: jim@jimthatcher.com
- cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
aloha, jim! my concern is not merely what is going to work now -- although that is a very large concern of mine, and one in which i have a vested interest -- but discovering precisely which of the features introduced into HTML4/XHTML1 to support interoperability, internationalization, and accessibility are not being supported by AT vendors, even though the means to do so is (ostensively) available to ATs via third party software (read: user agent) there is no excuse for any AT or "specialized" UA not to support fieldset, legend, and label -- not to mention OPTGROUP, SUMMARY, ABBR, ACRONYM, SCOPE, and AXIS, to name but a few... so, what can we do to encourage support for such elements and attributes? we need to discover what works now; what should work, but doesn't; and what is available via various user agents and ATs, and channel that feedback to both UA and AT developers, which explains the proliferation of test pages which i've been posting recently... why should AT vendors add support for a hack, when superior and standard methods exist and, in an apparently unknown number of instances, are supported by "mainstream" applications? rather than expending precious developer time on exposing TITLE on form controls, i'd prefer AT developers work on supporting TITLE where it is explicitly specified as providing a textual equivalent, such as when it is used in conjunction with the HR element -- when "title" was added as an attribute for HR at the dawn of the WAI, i thought that the days of using a graphical separator, for which orientational ALT text had been defined (such as ALT="The Fine Print: Please Read This Disclaimer at Least Once" or ALT="Begin Printed Page 86") were over... why don't i have the option to set my AT to expose the content of ABBR and ACRONYM if i so desire--automatically or on demand? (in the latter case, alerting me through an earcon, such as a pitch change or short beep, that an expansion is available) so, i implore all members of the WAI-IG to please take a look, listen, and/or feel to the test pages attached to my post, and to provide feedback via the wai-xtech list (wai-xtech@w3.org) thanks to the mail archives, the test pages have stable (if unwieldy) URIs: 1. Tabular Forms Employing LABEL (3 Forms on One Page) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001AprJun/att-0611/01-tabular_forms_using_label.html> 2. Tabular Form Using LABEL & ACCESSKEY <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001AprJun/att-0611/02-tabular_forms_using_label2.html> 3. Tabular Form Using Only TITLE and ALT, 1 (ALT for INPUT; TITLE for SELECT) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001AprJun/att-0611/03-tabular_form_using_title_and_alt.html> 4. Tabular Form Using Only TITLE and ALT, 2 (ACCESSKEY indicated using deprecated U element, rather than span as in previous form) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001AprJun/att-0611/04-tabular_form_using_title_and_alt2.html> 5. Tabular Form Using LABEL, ACCESSKEY, TITLE, & ALT (The Hedged Bet Form) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001AprJun/att-0611/05-tabular_form_using_label_and_alt.html> and, i employ AT and "mainstream" developers alike not only to keep abreast of evolution of the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines (Last Call Draft: http://www.w3.org/TR/uaag10 Latest WG Draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/uaag10) and the HTML4 Accessibility Note-in-Development, located at: http://www.w3.org/WAI/References/HTML4-access.html if we're going to "fix" things, let's "do it right", by pushing support for what is specified, rather than what works for certain applications under certain circumstances... yes, TITLE is a generic attribute that can be appended to almost everything in the BODY of an HTML document, and i agree that ATs should recognize and use it where necessary (or when configured by a user to do so), but where more robust solutions have been provided (LABEL, for example, has the advantage of being a container, which means that it, unlike TITLE can contain marked-up text) my point is that ATs should react to the standard markup which has been explicitly defined to increase accessibility, before being trained to recognize half-measures and kludges, as the latter not only leads to the entrenchment of kludges, but often proves a formidable impediment to change, on the part of both software and web-content developers... as a webmonster once emailed me, quote Why shouldn't I use NOFRAMES to push people to upgrade their browsers? Lynx provides access to my site whether or not I use NOFRAMES in the manner you suggested, so I fail to see why I shouldn't use them to encourage visitors to upgrade their browsers, so that they can more fully experience the richness of our site unquote gregory. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ CARNIVOROUS, adj. Addicted to the cruelty of devouring the timorous vegetarian, his heirs and assigns. -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Thatcher wrote: > Just a clarification of the example. The fact that my example does not speak > is sort of the problem. Today Window-Eyes will speak all the titles of those > input cells. I have been told that JFW will support titles on input elements > soon; same for HPR. The point is that you can capture the intended labeling > with titles. Phill's proposed change to LABEL (or some variation) is great, > but that is a long term solution. We need a solution today for forms with > complex layouts - not necessarily the simple rectangle of the example.
Received on Tuesday, 5 June 2001 18:03:15 UTC