- From: Kelly Ford <kelly@kellford.com>
- Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:12:07 -0400 (EDT)
- To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
David, In the case of JAWS, no matter what mode you are in when you use tha tab key to navigate, JAWS reads the associated label text when focus is moved to a check box. If by chance you are using JAWS 3.3 (which is several versions back and lacks that buffered mode) I would submit that having check boxes to the left of the text is most appropriate. It is likely that a person iould be using the JAWS cursor or strictly tab key navigation. Quite honestly I haven't a clue how well JAWS 3.3 and IE 4.0 do with reading appropriate label text. Those are software versions that are at least two years old and I haven't tested anything with them in quite a long time. On Thu, 3 May 2001, David Poehlman wrote: > what if I am in forms mode and tab through the checkboxes. What if any > regard should there be for positioning of the text. What also should I > do if I am running jfw 3.3 with ie 4.01 for some reason? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly Ford" <kelly@kellford.com> > To: "ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ" <ADAM.GUASCH@EEOC.GOV> > Cc: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 11:57 PM > Subject: Re: Form labeling and user agent support > > > Hello Adam, > > I suspect you are exploring this for 508 compliance so please don't > consider this any sort of official opinion. That said, I have a couple > comments. > > Your present design doesn't strike me as all that bad and is quite > common > from the perspective of what a user is used to. Most check boxes on web > pages appear before the text of the check box. I can actually make a > case > that this is a better design as the appearance of the check box after > the > prompt is likely to seem more confusing by comparison. > > With JAWS in the Virtual PC mode, the default for web content, the user > would experience a check box, arrow down once and then the text. If the > user presses enter (this is how you set focus to a check box or other > form > control from the VPC mode) on the check box, the associated label text > will be read along with the fact that it is a check box. > > Window-Eyes takes the label text and explicitly associates it with the > control in what it calls the MSAA mode. This means that label location > is > not critical for Window-Eyes because the user will experience the label > text on the same line as the control as well as in the original > location. > > Home Page Reader behavior is similar to JAWS. > > All three of these screen readers use what I'll term > a buffered reading mode. By that I mean they load the web content and > reformat into a decolumnized view among other items. > > There's also the possibility of using a title tag directly on the input > control. At present Window-Eyes is the only product I know will use > this > information but I believe other products will in the future. Nor it it > clear to me how Window-Eyes and other products will handle title and > label > text being present for the same control. I believe Window-Eyes defaults > to label text in such cases at present. > > > > > On Wed, 2 May 2001, ADAM GUASCH-MELENDEZ wrote: > > > Question on user agent support - > > > > We're about to post a publications order form, allowing users to > select from roughly 80 publications. The form as it exists right now > uses checkboxes positioned to the left of the publication title (in a > two-column table). Each publication title is labeled appropriately. > Example: > > > > <tr> > > <td><input type="checkbox" name="publications" value="pub123" > id="123"></td> > > <td><label for="123">Sample publication</label></td> > > </tr> > > > > However, according to checkpoint 10.2: > > > > "Until user agents support explicit associations between labels and > form controls, for all form controls with implicitly associated labels, > ensure that the label is properly positioned." > > > > Which, of course, would require that the label precede the control on > the same line, or on the preceding line, instead of the checkbox > preceding the label, as it is in our draft form. This makes perfect > sense to me - why present someone with a checkbox before telling them > what it's for? However, a colleague prefers the layout of the draft form > as it is - it's visually closer to most paper-based or web-based forms > she's familiar with. > > > > So the question is, what about that "Until user agents support ..."? > Do user agents (by which I specifically mean "typical" browser and > screen reader combinations): > > > > a - currently provide enough support for form labels to handle this > properly as it currently exists: checkbox first, then publication name, > with proper HTML labels, or > > > > b - not provide enough support for form labels, in which case our form > needs to be redone? > > > > I strongly suspect "b", and I plan to go ahead and redo the form, but > I thought I'd ask here first, since I don't have the experience of > someone who uses screen reader technology every day. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > >
Received on Thursday, 3 May 2001 08:12:23 UTC