- From: Steven McCaffrey <smccaffr@MAIL.NYSED.GOV>
- Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:29:17 -0400
- To: <kford@teleport.com>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Hi Kelly: A very good example illustrating many existing problems. As pointed out in a previous thread, (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/1999JanMar/0086.html) the example table in the techniques document of the table of cups of coffe consumed by each senator does *not* transform as described, using JFW 3.2. I don't know if JFW 3.5 transforms it as described. Even if it does, developers should not assume all users have JFW, nor that all JFW users have the latest version. If the row and column headings were spoken before the cells, this would be an adequate linearized version. However, I still maintain that an adequate linearized version of a table does not provide equivalent access, although it does provide a barely minimum degree of access. The following applies to data tables. Linearized tables do not provide equivalent access. Otherwise, why do sighted people use a two dimensional visual presentation and not a linear list of the cells? In other words, if a person were to read a large data table to a friend over the phone, one cell at a time, would the person listening to the verbal enunciation of the table feel that he/she is getting the information out that she/he wants from the table? Clearly not. What would happne in this case? The person listening would no doubt ask to have certain cells or even entire rows read out again, without having to listen to the entire table again, one cell at a time. For data tables containing numerical data,(unlike the landsend.com example), the listener might ask the reader at the other end of the phone to answer a question like "How does the values of X change over time? Is there a pattern? Where does it reach a maximum..." In a table like that in the landsend.com example, if prices are also listed, one might want to ask, "What is the cheapest , most expensive etc." just to name a few questions I might want to ask. Another class of question might be "Is there product x in size range Y?" All this, in a slightly different context, I have raised before in the How to describe flowcharts, ... thread. all this information could be provided in a long describption ahead of time, or by some interactive database-like query, (XML to the rescue?). Until such descriptions or interactivity exists, access to data tables is not equivalent, linearized or not. And the fact of the matter is that still, many, if not most, screen readers do not even provide a correct linearized version for all tables. I accept a correctly linearized version of data tables as only an interim solution and hope the W3C WAI is still working on truly equivalent access to data tables. Tables are going to be used more and more, especially in data intensive areas like statistical or budgetary information. The overall principle boils down to the fact that a two dimensional visual representation of a table is incorrectly assumed to be the definition of a table, and is thus, by its very nature, confusing presentation with logical structure. The definition used in the WCAG of "tabular information" is, very roughly, correct, and yet the WCAG and techniques documents still insist that a linearized version is accessible. As I said, a linearized version provides a bare minimum degree of access but falls far short of equivalent access. -Steve Steve McCaffrey Senior Programmer/Analyst Information Technology Services New York State Department of Education (518)-473-3453 smccaffr@mail.nysed.gov Member, New York State Workgroup on Accessibility to Information Technology Web Design Subcommittee http://web.nysed.gov/cio/access/webdesignsubcommittee.html >>> Kelly Ford <kford@teleport.com> 04/09/00 11:09AM >>> Hi All, Perhaps this is detailed in a techniques document someplace so pointers are appreciated. Further I'm not an expert on HTML coding as much as I am on figuring out how to handle whatever web pages toss my way. I have a question about techniques for coding tables so they linearize correctly. Below is an example of how a table from Lands' End reads in JFW and Window-Eyes. Is there a way to code this table so it still looks the same visually but so the column headings of Chino, Poplin and Active would appear in better locations when the table is linearized by the web browser and screen reader? The word "link" appears in front of anything that's a link and the word "graphic" in front of anything that's a picture. This is roughly how one section of the Men's Shorts page appears in Window-Eyes or JFW. Lands' End uses this same layout for all their product pages. http://www.landsend.com/cd/frontdoor/0,2084,CAT_men_6_31____,00.html Chino Poplin Active Link Graphic Plain-front Link Graphic Plain-front Link Plain-front Link Graphic Pleated Link Pleated Link Graphic Drawstring Link Drawstring Link Graphic Cargo Link Cargo View Thumbnails... Link Graphic Plain-front Link Graphic Plain-front Link Plain-front Link Graphic Pleated Link Pleated Link Graphic Drawstring Link Drawstring View Thumbnails... Link Graphic Ripstop Hikers Link Graphic Ripstop Hikers Link Ripstop Hikers Link Graphic Cargo Water Link Cargo Water Link Graphic Tactel Adventure Link Tactel Adventure Link Graphic Knit Sport Link Knit Sport Link Graphic Knit Cargo Link Knit Cargo View all...
Received on Monday, 10 April 2000 13:32:18 UTC