Re: Comments (was CFC - WCAG 2.1/2.2 errata)

I agree that the objections raised should be addressed/answered so -1 to
the proposal.

Regards,
Helen

On Thu 7 Nov 2024 at 11:00, Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com> wrote:

> Hey Alastair,
>
> > There is some discussion going on for the input-purpose update.
> Currently we have quite a few +1s on the whole, and a single -1 on specific
> aspects. If others express objections (-1s) based on the input-purpose
> aspect alone, we can remove that part and consider it consensus.
>
> Would you mind clarifying this? Looking at the definition of consensus
> <https://www.w3.org/policies/process/#def-Consensus>, it says as having
> "no sustained objection". I am objecting, how can there be consensus? The
> group can't ignore an objection, just because there is only one of them.
> The next step <https://www.w3.org/policies/process/#managing-dissent> is
> to consider the concerns, and work out if there is another proposal
> possible that results in weaker, or no objections. The next step aught to
> be to poll the group on this errata without the change.
>
> Thanks,
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 6:38 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> As an update, I’ve asked the WCAG 2.x TF facilitators to check the
>> minutes / discussions on the first two items.
>>
>>
>>
>> The “text” definition in “blocks of text” was an oversight and has been
>> reverted.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is some discussion going on for the input-purpose update.
>> Currently we have quite a few +1s on the whole, and a single -1 on specific
>> aspects.
>>
>>
>>
>> If others express objections (-1s) based on the input-purpose aspect
>> alone, we can remove that part and consider it consensus.
>>
>> If there are no other objections we can “pass with an objection”.
>>
>>
>>
>> I encourage anyone who isn’t sure how to respond to check the github
>> conversation (link above) to understand the different points of view.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> @alastc / www.nomensa.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Wilco Fiers
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 5 November 2024 at 13:27
>>
>> Hey Alastair,
>>
>> There was no group decision recorded on the following:
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3776/files#r1751701618
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3539#pullrequestreview-2292988933
>>
>> I can live with most of the changes provided the group at least
>> considered the suggestions/question. If these things were discussed and the
>> TF, I ask that someone just leave a comment with the TF resolution in it.
>> That way I know the status, and if I have further comments I can provide
>> them.
>>
>> The two topics I will stand my ground on are not adding the "text"
>> definition to "blocks of text" (
>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3038/files#r1829124572) and not
>> removing "currency-amount" from input purpose (
>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3539#pullrequestreview-2292988933).
>> That first one I assume was an oversight. On the second one I disagree with
>> your argument that "information about the user" needs to be "stable". There
>> is no such requirement in the success criterion. The other arguments given
>> in favor of removing feel questionable at best too. I think there are very
>> good reasons why people may want a custom style on form fields where they
>> fill in how much money they transfer to another. Far more so than many
>> other fields. I don't think a philosophical discussion arguing what exactly
>> "about" means doesn't trump the importance of allowing people who need it
>> that kind of customization.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:58 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Wilco,
>>
>>
>>
>> On each of those:
>>
>>
>>
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3776/files#r1751701618
>>
>> Removing a pair of brackets in regular text, so minor editorial.
>> Personally, I think it reads better than the alternative way of saying that.
>>
>> Chair hat on: We could go either way, and I’ll note if others have strong
>> reasoning for a change to that.
>>
>>
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3038/files#r1829134724
>>
>> There is a definition that includes the singular, I’ve linked to that in
>> the comment.
>>
>>
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3776/files#r1751701618
>>
>> Repeat of the 1st item.
>>
>>
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3362/files#r1829151465
>>
>> In the definition for “programmatically determined link context” you
>> don’t want to link to an evergreen spec. The WCAG 2 issues TF has been
>> doing that in the informative docs for a while. I can’t remember off-hand
>> what the issues with linking to fixed versions was, but for defining what
>> an HTML paragraph, it should be as stable a resource as any.
>>
>>
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3539#pullrequestreview-2292988933
>>
>> You don’t want to remove transaction amount from input purpose. This was
>> replied to (and rebutted) on the pre-CfC email thread and in the github
>> thread. In summary: A single financial transaction is not stable
>> information about a user, and arguably isn’t included by the normative SC
>> language as it stands.
>>
>> Chair hat on: I’ll note if others disagree with this aspect in this
>> thread or the CFC thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> @alastc / www.nomensa.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 5 November 2024 at 11:03
>> *To: *Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> *Cc: *WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: CFC - WCAG 2.1/2.2 errata
>>
>> -1, several issues from the pre-CFC have not been responded to /
>> addressed:
>>
>>
>>
>> My comments are in the various PRs:
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3776/files#r1751701618
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3038/files#r1829134724
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3776/files#r1751701618
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3362/files#r1829151465
>> - https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3539#pullrequestreview-2292988933
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 11:54 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> Call For Consensus — ends 8th November 2024 at 5pm Boston time.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are a few minor normative (errata) updates to WCAG 2.1/2.2 which we
>> would like to make, and re-publish so they are on the face of the specs.
>>
>>
>>
>> All of these are things the group has reviewed and approved individually,
>> so the forthcoming CFC is to check the group is happy to publish these in
>> 2.1 and 2.2.
>>
>>
>>
>> Few would apply to WCAG 2.0 so we aren’t proposing to add errata for 2.0.
>>
>>
>>
>> Since the pre-CFC email two of the items have been updated based on
>> feedback, and three have been added, marked below.
>>
>>
>>
>> Applying to 2.2:
>>
>>
>>
>>    - Make "cognitive function test" definition term lowercase, aligning
>>    with other terms. https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3943/files
>>    - Update to the focus-appearance note, aligning with the final text.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3657/files
>>    - Updating the ‘new’ markers in 2.2.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/1481/files
>>    - Removing the un-used definition for encloses.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3636/files
>>    - Editorial updates to the target-size (min) SC text.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3189/files
>>    - Missing comma in introduction.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3938/files
>>
>>
>>
>> Applying to 2.1 and 2.2:
>>
>>    - Updating the definition of single-pointer, separating the a note
>>    off for clarification.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3536/files
>>    UPDATED since the Pre-CFC email with this PR:
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/4070
>>    - Linking up various definitions where they have not been linked
>>    before (caught as part of the WCAG2ICT work).
>>    UPDATED since the Pre-CFC email.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3038/files
>>    - Change "tablets...mobile devices" to a better structure without
>>    suggesting tablets are not mobile devices (small update to the
>>    introduction).
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3776/files
>>    - Changing <ol> to <ul> when no order is intended.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3756/files
>>    - Updating the style of the input purposes for syntax highlighting.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3380/files
>>    - Updating the programmatically determined link-text definition to
>>    disambiguate lists and list-items.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3362/files
>>    - Updating a “WCAG 2.1” reference to “WCAG 2”, so it works in both.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3707/files
>>    - Update Input Purposes list to remove transaction-amount.
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3539/files
>>    - Style updates, things like lowercasing “web page” (NEW since
>>    pre-CFC)
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/4080/files
>>    - Capitalisation fixes in the Parsing note for WCAG 2.1 (NEW since
>>    pre-CFC)
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3154/files
>>    - Fix typo/incorrect word in input purpose listing (NEW since pre-CFC)
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/4034/files
>>    - Update changelog in guidelines/index.html (NEW since pre-CFC)
>>    https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/4123
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not
>> been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not
>> being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before
>> the CfC deadline.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> @alastc / www.nomensa.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Wilco Fiers*
>>
>> Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager -
>> Facilitator ACT Task Force
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Wilco Fiers*
>>
>> Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager -
>> Facilitator ACT Task Force
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Wilco Fiers*
> Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager - Facilitator
> ACT Task Force
>
>
>

Received on Thursday, 7 November 2024 13:42:21 UTC