Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: CFC - 4.1.1 Parsing in WCAG 2.0 and 2.1

Agreeing with John and Chaals.

Is there any precedent within W3C for changing an existing, versioned and published recommendation, agreed to previously in time by W3C membership?  Is it an errata? Don’t think so.  The concern is adequately addressed by deprecating (which I agree is the correct approach) in the latest, and member approved, specification.  SC 4.1.1 appeared relevant to us at the time, it was approved, and remains part of WCAG’s history.  Deprecate and move on in subsequent versions.

Mark

From: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 3:20 PM
To: Siegman, Tzviya <tsiegman@wiley.com>
Cc: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: CFC - 4.1.1 Parsing in WCAG 2.0 and 2.1
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Like Chaals, I'm also likely to make a Formal Objection to substantively changing a previously published W3C Recommendation. That is why we went with the dot extension model: 2.2 WILL BE different than 2.1 just as 2.1 was different than 2.0. Whether we like it or not, changing any of the WCAG versions after they have reached Rec Status may very well have knock-on impacts to legislated requirements around the world, and could have a detrimental (negative) reflection on the W3C writ large.

Despite Wilco's flawed argument, if you are conformant today to ALL of the WCAG 2.1 SC, then the path to meeting 2.2 conformance is to simply meet the new SC requirements (putting aside whether you previously did or did not meet 4.1.1).

I also struggle with invoking the term "Obsolete", and would much prefer to see "Deprecated" - the nuance is subtle but distinct.

JF

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 3:01 PM Siegman, Tzviya <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>> wrote:
+1

Tzviya Siegman
Information Standards Principal
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>

From: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com<mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 12:59 PM
To: WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: CFC - 4.1.1 Parsing in WCAG 2.0 and 2.1
Importance: High

⛔
This is an external email.
Call For Consensus — ends Friday Wed 15th at midday Boston time.

The group has discussed what to do with 4.1.1 Parsing in WCAG 2.0 & 2.1 now that it has been removed from WCAG 2.2.

From the discussion:
https://www.w3.org/2023/03/07-ag-minutes#item10<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2023%2F03%2F07-ag-minutes*item10__%3BIw!!N11eV2iwtfs!ugTba4q53qozcGQqEMEEyasXd33losP4RZNX-n0rUudD53Ypjem-rTaYQTM6JowML9H_10C7jmfez9VGJw%24&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C8293865bc300409a8d3b08db201297f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638139036468432882%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BpgSNsLNWoan0MMpMhykdOtKiwpi%2BZ%2FO0d1HFjiyvyE%3D&reserved=0>

Following the same approach as WCAG 2.2 was the preferred approach, where the SC text would be removed and replaced with a note that says why it has been removed.

The specific changes are detailed in these two pull requests:
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3093<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag%2Fpull%2F3093__%3B!!N11eV2iwtfs!ugTba4q53qozcGQqEMEEyasXd33losP4RZNX-n0rUudD53Ypjem-rTaYQTM6JowML9H_10C7jmdMiSXedg%24&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C8293865bc300409a8d3b08db201297f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638139036468432882%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dc3IcVKEtDoNcN3Qrmn7UZGAw1NH2r628%2FGJSrnuHSk%3D&reserved=0>
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3094<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag%2Fpull%2F3094__%3B!!N11eV2iwtfs!ugTba4q53qozcGQqEMEEyasXd33losP4RZNX-n0rUudD53Ypjem-rTaYQTM6JowML9H_10C7jmcNvvv_-g%24&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C8293865bc300409a8d3b08db201297f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638139036468432882%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uRxuptZeSVTF%2BSi5ANWPNTAH6JDNcgP4Wl8svIbIBAI%3D&reserved=0>

Survey results: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcag22-misc5/results#xq23<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2Fwcag22-misc5%2Fresults*xq23__%3BIw!!N11eV2iwtfs!ugTba4q53qozcGQqEMEEyasXd33losP4RZNX-n0rUudD53Ypjem-rTaYQTM6JowML9H_10C7jmewMpiCqg%24&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C8293865bc300409a8d3b08db201297f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638139036468432882%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=R6V9q0sWNGbw0IWJITDyGWlKLO6tYxuolpmiiBkx99s%3D&reserved=0>

If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before the CfC deadline.

Assuming the group agrees to this change, there is likely to be a public review before we can re-publish WCAG 2.0 & 2.1.
https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#last-call-review<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2021%2FProcess-20211102%2F*last-call-review__%3BIw!!N11eV2iwtfs!ugTba4q53qozcGQqEMEEyasXd33losP4RZNX-n0rUudD53Ypjem-rTaYQTM6JowML9H_10C7jmcpGrAkRg%24&data=05%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C8293865bc300409a8d3b08db201297f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C638139036468432882%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mjWLAtijjUxjfswpSIZbcwgsdFrKfUhVRZ7XOr7AR%2Bo%3D&reserved=0>

Kind regards,

-Alastair

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John Foliot |
Senior Industry Specialist, Digital Accessibility |
W3C Accessibility Standards Contributor |
"I made this so long because I did not have time to make it shorter." - Pascal "links go places, buttons do things"

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