- From: Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>
- Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2023 14:06:38 +0100
- To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
- Message-ID: <3eede472-8a2c-bd7c-5c1b-724b4274e6a8@testkreis.de>
Hi Gregg
My understanding from previous discussions was that lists where list
items contain other text, as in your examples below, would be exempt -
lists would only be in scope if they are really lists of links (as in
the common navigation structures). The real grey area seem to be lists
that mix list items that have other text *and* links in them, and also
list items that are just links (I guess in some content types like
Wikipedia that won't be infrequent). I can think of two ways of
excluding such lists (and the inconsistencies related to spacing):
1. Generally exempt link targets that are not part of the overall
navigation structure (repeated across pages). (I realize "overall"
and "page-specific" might be difficult to differentiate)
2. Generally exempt link targets in all lists that include any list
items that contain non-linked text
Detlev
Am 06.01.2023 um 23:01 schrieb Gregg Vanderheiden RTF:
> Hmmm
>
> I guess is I vote 0 unless others agree with me on this.
> (I would vote -1 but I don’t want to derail this if it is just me)
>
> MY CONCERN
>
> Right now - the text exception applies only to links in blocks of text
> like paragraphs etc. It does not apply to lists however.
>
> So
>
> Having a link in the sentence is ok because it is
>
> in a _paragraph_ of text. But if I add some bullets
>
> * A_link here_ would fail
> * Because it is in a list
>
> I think this is very bad
> *_since these rules will be applied everywhere and not just web
> content_*
>
>
> That the means if I want to conform
>
> * And I put in links _here_ in a list
>
> * I need to space out my
>
> * List in the gappy fashion
>
> * In order to conform
>
>
> And then if I have another list in the same document but it
> doesn’t happen to have a link in it
>
> * I can then space it
> * Like this
> * Even if in the same document
>
>
> The only way to not have it be spacey is if I know how to do
> things like padding etc.
> Which I do not know how to do in this HTML email
> And I also don’t know how to do in many other technologies.
> And a very large number of people who make up web pages - do not
> know how to do padding etc.
>
> This will also be applied to word documents etc. Do you know how
> to change the line height of the lines in the table of contents in
> the word document? (I do - but it is beyond the skills of most
> people who use word and involved changing styles sheet formats for
> styles called TOC etc.)
>
>
>
> I predict - that if we keep this as is — this will be the most
> frequent violation of WGAG by people who tried to make their pages
> accessible - (and replace 4.1.1 as a selling point error for overlay
> companies)
>
> I would suggest that lists that are part of text - be treated as text.
>
> A slight change something like
>
> FROM:
>
> The target is in a sentence, or the size of the target is
> otherwise constrained by the line-height of non-target text;
>
> TO:
>
> The target is in a sentence or a list, or the size of the
> target is constrained by the line-height of non-target text;
>
>
> Or some such.
>
> I leave it to the group to decide if this is a general concern or just
> mine. Personally I think it is a problem.
>
>
> Best
>
>
> gregg
>
>
>
>> On Jan 6, 2023, at 10:36 AM, Ku, JaEun Jemma <jku@uic.edu> wrote:
>>
>> +1
>> Best,
>> **
>> *JaEun Jemma Ku, Ph.D.*
>> Director of IT Accessibility
>> Editor of W3C ARIA Authoring Practice Guide
>> <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/>
>> Office for Access and Equity <https://oae.uic.edu/>andTechnology
>> Solutions <https://it.uic.edu/>
>> University of Illinois Chicago <https://www.uic.edu/>
>> Email: jku@uic.edu <mailto:jku@uic.edu>
>>
>> *From:*Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> *Date:*Friday, January 6, 2023 11:51 AM
>> *To:*WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> *Subject:*CFC - Target Size (Min) Updates
>>
>> Call For Consensus — ends Thursday January 12th at 1pm Boston time.
>> There are two proposed updates to the exceptions in Target Size
>> (Minimum):
>>
>> 1. Inline exception:
>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2856/files
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag%2Fpull%2F2856%2Ffiles&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C4d90955aa7bd4f922bcb08daf00eb0d4%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638086243149297799%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8mWqq7kzqDUdemxrDmgaB6Y8fSuohphAUe%2BlrtLdUr0%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>> 2. Target offset (including the definition):
>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2798/files
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag%2Fpull%2F2798%2Ffiles&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C4d90955aa7bd4f922bcb08daf00eb0d4%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638086243149297799%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2F2%2FNE%2FsrLsZIjFovnyAlZ7vTcqqgHGN1X9csEyDb5MA%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> These were discussed here:
>> https://www.w3.org/2022/12/06-ag-minutes#t02
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2022%2F12%2F06-ag-minutes%23t02&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C4d90955aa7bd4f922bcb08daf00eb0d4%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638086243149297799%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BKf%2Bj%2F31enXpsNYr49ewt7EvgVINB0glZyNOpWnJnCo%3D&reserved=0>
>> And:
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2022OctDec/0178.html
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl%2F2022OctDec%2F0178.html&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C4d90955aa7bd4f922bcb08daf00eb0d4%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638086243149297799%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fGJsdHrMD2UXvp4r7zTWSY7%2BXYvsYigHgj9tB2V2eGk%3D&reserved=0>
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2023JanMar/0008.html
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl%2F2023JanMar%2F0008.html&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C4d90955aa7bd4f922bcb08daf00eb0d4%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638086243149297799%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=35C8%2FIZ4zRY0Ww%2FYUER3puy7vAABIlgVznAwqkKH5qg%3D&reserved=0>
>> And surveyed (although subsequently updated):
>> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcag22-misc-normative/results#xq10
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2Fwcag22-misc-normative%2Fresults%23xq10&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C4d90955aa7bd4f922bcb08daf00eb0d4%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638086243149297799%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QJUjm2wg3TXqxTJmt3C5skf4LQjXwRmSj1daQWvF1C0%3D&reserved=0>
>> If excepted, we can raise an errata to align the inline exception in
>> Target Size (Enhanced).
>> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have
>> not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you
>> “not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group
>> know before the CfC deadline.
>> Kind regards,
>> -Alastair
>> --
>>
>> @alastc / www.nomensa.com
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nomensa.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C4d90955aa7bd4f922bcb08daf00eb0d4%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C638086243149297799%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eH0bWXHni%2FLD8X3CI%2BrYjbladaskyxIBzc4LiUvBH7E%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>
--
Detlev Fischer
DIAS GmbH
(Testkreis is now part of DIAS GmbH)
Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
http://www.dias.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
Received on Monday, 9 January 2023 13:06:51 UTC