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Re: SURVEY: WCAG 2.2 editorial updates

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 22:09:09 +0000
To: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org)" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <AF51B31A-2FC8-4643-AC81-7FB7F4541084@adobe.com>
1 – ok
4 – Can you confirm that the slider thumb is included? It looks like the main point of my issue is not included.
5 – Part of the point of my edits was to directly clarify that zooming triggers a user-initiated change because it clarifies the exception. I would be more comfortable with this formulation if the phrase “The user can cause a change” was “The user can initiate a change”


1. Target size - Problems with the Equivalent exception #2569

Two people didn’t think the general “alternatives” applied, but having checked with two former chairs I’m confident it does. It is a tad hidden: In the understanding conformance doc<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FWCAG21%2FUnderstanding%2Fconformance%23cc2&data=05%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C9828de57433d4e80bc2708da803d95bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637963299255954690%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xNfviKbgNfcE3WprktMs1TAGSebKmneRaEj2lgZ%2FLoE%3D&reserved=0> it says:
“Alternatives can also be provided on the same page. For example creating an equivalent to a user interface control.“

Jonathan was aware of that but would still like to have it explicit in this SC.

Chair hat off: If we make that explicit in this SC then it implies other SCs can’t use alternatives. I’d rather be consistent.

Chair hat on: Given that the exception is not required (according to our conformance model) would anyone object to removing it?

4. Improvement for Dragging Movement definition note #2595

This had agreement except for a question: Is it ok to include the thumbs of sliders in this list of examples?

Sliders are used a lot in the Pointer Gestures understanding document<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fwcag%2Funderstanding%2Fpointer-gestures.html&data=05%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C9828de57433d4e80bc2708da803d95bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637963299255954690%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=I6Wff9P49tvA7o2nDvvZDT3dBOTRIusoO5wTmxVRQBw%3D&reserved=0> and we’ve already had trouble differentiating gestures and dragging, so I think it is a good point.

Given that any “little piece of UI” is probably represented by text or an image, I propose that we just remove the last part so it is:
“Examples of draggable elements include list items, text elements, and images.”

Any objections?

5. Clarification for Consistent Help, 2nd Note #2596

There were several suggested updates, taking into account the context (the rest of the note<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fwcag%2Fguidelines%2F22%2F%23h-note-31&data=05%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C9828de57433d4e80bc2708da803d95bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637963299255954690%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VpGJfMnbVB3yuVgpbn6vFKflhWhWSsTaRLsKjE2VVnw%3D&reserved=0>), I though this combination worked best:

“For this Success Criterion, the same relative order can be thought of as how the content is ordered when the page is serialized. The visual position of a help mechanism is likely to be consistent across pages for the same page variation (e.g., CSS break-point). [CHANGE:] The user can cause a change, such as changing the page's zoom or orientation, which may trigger a different page variation. A visual change between page variations does mean a change of relative order.”

Any objections to that?

Kind regards,


From: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
Date: Monday, 15 August 2022 at 10:41
To: WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: SURVEY: WCAG 2.2 editorial updates
Hi everyone,

There are a few recent editorial updates identified in github issues.

I’ve created a survey for this:

If we get sufficient response (of agreement) on the survey this week, I don’t think they need meeting time. If people disagree we can raise them at a meeting.

Kind regards,



@alastc / www.nomensa.com<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nomensa.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C9828de57433d4e80bc2708da803d95bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637963299256110925%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XtmVYMxLUMQQg4e1AxE3nnG%2Bo%2Fv21mhwscoExQIFzSc%3D&reserved=0>

Received on Wednesday, 17 August 2022 22:09:24 UTC

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