Re: [EXT] Re: CFC - WCAG 2.2 Target Size (Min), Normative Text

Hey Mike,
Here's an example of where I think the user agent exception should not
apply:
 https://codepen.io/wilcofiers/full/WNzbqJG

I already previously noted my concern with the "not modified by the author"
wording. It's too fuzzy for my liking. I think you can still argue that
those checkboxes meet the exception because I didn't change the padding /
margin. You can also argue that any time you set the font-size of a page,
you've modified the size of things for which we wrote this exception, and
so the exception doesn't apply. That wording was fine when we were talking
about specific properties in WCAG 2.1. I don't think it works for either
spacing, or size.


On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 6:40 PM Michael Gower <michael.gower@ca.ibm.com>
wrote:

> +1
>
> I’m hard-pressed to imagine a situation where two radio buttons, etc.,
> could be brought in close enough proximity that this would be a factor
> (maybe 2 with *really* small type stacked on top of each other and spaced
> single line?) but I can’t see any negative to adding in the target offset
> to the UA exception.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> *From: *Nicaise Dogbo (CELA) <nidogbo@microsoft.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:17 AM
> *To: *Jennifer Strickland <jstrickland@mitre.org>, Alastair Campbell <
> acampbell@nomensa.com>, WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] RE: [EXT] Re: CFC - WCAG 2.2 Target Size (Min),
> Normative Text
>
> +1 Thx, ND From: Jennifer Strickland <jstrickland@mitre.org> Sent:
> Thursday, June 30, 2022 8:21 AM To: Alastair Campbell <
> acampbell@nomensa.com>; WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍
>
> ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
>
> *This Message Is From an External Sender *
>
> This message came from outside your organization.
>
> ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd
>
> +1
>
>
>
> Thx,
>
>
>
> ND
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jennifer Strickland <jstrickland@mitre.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2022 8:21 AM
> *To:* Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>; WCAG list (
> w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: CFC - WCAG 2.2 Target Size (Min),
> Normative Text
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
> *From: *Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 11:06 AM
> *To: *WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Cc: *Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>, Laura Carlson <
> laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, toddlibby@protonmail.com <
> toddlibby@protonmail.com>, Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com>
> *Subject: *[EXT] Re: CFC - WCAG 2.2 Target Size (Min), Normative Text
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> To deal with an objection, I’m proposing an update to the user-agent
> bullet:
>
>
>
> *“User agent control:* The size of the target *and target offset* is
> determined by the user agent and is not modified by the author;”
>
>
>
> (Adding “and target offset” https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2534/files
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag%2Fpull%2F2534%2Ffiles&data=05%7C01%7Cnidogbo%40microsoft.com%7C805e784bc08d4f50f62908da5aac53e1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637921993448626744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5C31iSehu5mA71LkYdlHKdcDMIxKZPKbHjRKmokbpJQ%3D&reserved=0>
> ).
>
>
>
> Please reply if this changes your previous +1.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> -Alastair
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Alastair Campbell
>
> Call For Consensus — ends Wednesday Monday July 4th at midday Boston time.
>
>
>
> The Working Group has previously discussed the WCAG 2.2 SC *Target Size
> (Min) *and the *Normative text *needs to be approved by CFC.
>
>
>
> It can be previewed in the editor’s draft:
>
> https://w3c.github.io/wcag/guidelines/22/#target-size-minimum
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fwcag%2Fguidelines%2F22%2F%23target-size-minimum&data=05%7C01%7Cnidogbo%40microsoft.com%7C805e784bc08d4f50f62908da5aac53e1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637921993448626744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aK1VQg6u7Lt2B5PWCAlAQT1%2FOymH1IlqnW5UeIg3kMo%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> The SC was last discussed in a meeting May 17th:
>
> https://www.w3.org/2022/05/17-ag-minutes#item07
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2022%2F05%2F17-ag-minutes%23item07&data=05%7C01%7Cnidogbo%40microsoft.com%7C805e784bc08d4f50f62908da5aac53e1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637921993448626744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fBN6J%2FLNgKZxanTEzvB4epkNZtbiB7GWGDj3C%2FjPhrE%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> The change history is here:
>
>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/commits/main/guidelines/sc/22/target-size-minimum.html
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag%2Fcommits%2Fmain%2Fguidelines%2Fsc%2F22%2Ftarget-size-minimum.html&data=05%7C01%7Cnidogbo%40microsoft.com%7C805e784bc08d4f50f62908da5aac53e1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637921993448626744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=f3QlAZJ5ooa0WINb2BMRLBMFMKk%2BqfCWAnk6asPgp7A%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> The survey is available here:
>
> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcag22-target-size-min/results
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2Fwcag22-target-size-min%2Fresults&data=05%7C01%7Cnidogbo%40microsoft.com%7C805e784bc08d4f50f62908da5aac53e1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637921993448626744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8%2FWyuy5ysA416pf1c%2B20AzWTGekjTYCgmvAJEQBXtwE%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> The github issues are listed here:
>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%222.5.8+Target+Size+%28Min%29%22+-label%3A%22Survey+-+Added%22
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag%2Fissues%3Fq%3Dis%253Aissue%2Bis%253Aopen%2Blabel%253A%25222.5.8%2BTarget%2BSize%2B%2528Min%2529%2522%2B-label%253A%2522Survey%2B-%2BAdded%2522&data=05%7C01%7Cnidogbo%40microsoft.com%7C805e784bc08d4f50f62908da5aac53e1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637921993448626744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PPHcW0Si%2Bud5xjgLKUePKuKxSDBD8c9NxqJuOQtZAVM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> (There is 1 open, related to an understanding content update.)
>
>
>
> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not
> been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not
> being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before
> the CfC deadline.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> -Alastair
>
> --
>
>
>
> @alastc / www.nomensa.com
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nomensa.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cnidogbo%40microsoft.com%7C805e784bc08d4f50f62908da5aac53e1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637921993448626744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tiV2MABDGwRfApfsEcgPF%2BsZpnS0Pf4tcHkFXgNvjC8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>


-- 
*Wilco Fiers*
Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager - Facilitator
ACT Task Force