Re: [EXT] Re: Visible controls updates

100,000%!

From: Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 9:49 AM
To: Ku, JaEun Jemma <jku@uic.edu>
Cc: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, Niemann, Gundula <gundula.niemann@sap.com>, WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: [EXT] Re: Visible controls updates
Hey folks,
This is all very nuanced. Can we more on principle agree whether or not the indicator, whatever it is, has to provide some information on how to find/reveal the hidden control? It seems to me the answer is yes, so can we do something to make that clearer in the wording of the SC?

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:26 PM Ku, JaEun Jemma <jku@uic.edu<mailto:jku@uic.edu>> wrote:
Hi Gundula,

I’m not a native English speaker, and it is noticeable that different people can interpret things in different ways. I think we should default to the dictionary meaning where possible, it would also help with accurate translations.

Best,

JaEun Jemma Ku, PhD
Assistant Director of Digital Accessibility
Coeditor of W3C ARIA APG<https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/>

Office for Access and Equity
University of Illinois Chicago
Email: jku@uic.edu<mailto:jku@uic.edu>

Pronouns: she/her/hers

Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written communication to or from university employees regarding university business is a public record and may be subject to public disclosure.




From: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com<mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>>
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 4:21 AM
To: Niemann, Gundula <gundula.niemann@sap.com<mailto:gundula.niemann@sap.com>>
Cc: WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>, Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com<mailto:wilco.fiers@deque.com>>
Subject: RE: Visible controls updates
Hi Gundula,

> from the academic and dictionary point of view, that’s certainly correct.

It is also correct from a plain-English point of view.


> Nevertheless I feel that different pictures raise in the reader’s mind.
> Using the word ‘identify’ feels more strict and somehow implies the location.

I’m not sure why that would be, “identify” has no implication of location.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/identify<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dictionary.com%2Fbrowse%2Fidentify&data=04%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C1210039977cf4fd3e6c908d9a8ea9e81%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C637726548784038765%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=h6Ez%2FrMgZ4cbeorxbapNmLTX4gg20T6uRnnk1TB9N6A%3D&reserved=0>

Going back to my buried treasure example: To identify the buried treasure would be to match it with a picture, description, or other representation. To indicate the buried treasure would be to point out, point to, or direct attention to it.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/indicate<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dictionary.com%2Fbrowse%2Findicate&data=04%7C01%7Cjku%40uic.edu%7C1210039977cf4fd3e6c908d9a8ea9e81%7Ce202cd477a564baa99e3e3b71a7c77dd%7C0%7C0%7C637726548784048721%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=SykK9pN8fHF7ZL4w%2B0CCTmMC4jEAm%2FuwtYVw7Cyd7qc%3D&reserved=0>

It seems to be the better word for the intended meaning.


> While the more loose new wording immediately triggers a mind image of some icon or string that says ‘there are invisible elements on the page’ or ‘hover an item to see its options’ or something the like.

In some cases that might be the best solution. E.g. “Hover over the cells in the table to see the options available.” One of the cases we want to avoid is adding an icon next to every editable item in a dense display of items.

In that case, ‘indicator’ seems to be the better term as it includes an implication of location.

Kind regards,

-Alastair



--
Wilco Fiers
Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager - Facilitator ACT Task Force
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