Re: AGENDA and Surveys - AGWG Meeting September 28th 2021

Dear All, 

I sent an email to the w3c-wai-gl list on 11 August - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2021JulSep/0077.html

This email was entitled "Considering AI/Machine-Learning metrics for the assessment of specific SC values under WCAG 3.0”. In this email I picked Alternative Text as an example, as has been done under agenda item #2.  In my email I mentioned that:

Simply stating that alternative text provided by a system be “descriptive” is not sufficient for AI/Machine-Learning projects - which want to clearly indicate their improvements. Some seemingly good work has been done on defining metrics that measure the quality of generated image captions by analyzing their semantic content.  See SPICE - Semantic Propositional Image Caption Evaluation (https://panderson.me/images/SPICE.pdf <https://panderson.me/images/SPICE.pdf) as an example.

The point being that other researchers, in other fields, have already been considering this same topic, and are continuing to provide useful insights into how such things can be objectively tested.

I strongly hope the above might make it into our Tuesday discussions, and that other such similar research might be considered under further SCs in the future.

Very best regards

Alistair Garrison

With such an example in mind, might the AGWG be open to considering the use of such metrics, when available and appropriate of course, in their future development of testable WCAG 3.0 Outcomes?

> On 24 Sep 2021, at 14:27, Bruce Bailey <Bailey@Access-Board.gov> wrote:
> 
> I am looking forward to topic specific materials.  In the meantime, I found it helpful to re-familiarize myself with the very excellent EO materials available on and from this page:
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/ <https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/>
>  
>  
> From: Bradley-Montgomery, Rachael <rmontgomery@loc.gov> 
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 8:59 PM
> To: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>; Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com>
> Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; Silver TF <public-silver@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: AGENDA and Surveys - AGWG Meeting September 28th 2021
>  
> Hello John and all,
>  
> We’ve had a few questions about agenda item #2 so wanted to clarify. We are putting together materials for this item and will send them out when they are ready. It may not be until Monday.
>  
> To give context, there is no proposal planned for voting on Tuesday. Rather this agenda item is to begin the conversation around measuring if an instance of something is or is not accessible (or how accessible it is). We believe alternative text provides a good foundation to work from because:
> it is complex enough to demonstrate the variations and potential complexity of measuring accessibility,
> concrete enough that we can carefully examine and discuss the details of measuring, and
> we believe everyone has a solid understanding of what is needed to make text alternatives accessible.  
>  
> I hope that helps provide some background. We will be walking through the materials step-by-step in the meeting so pre-reading is not required but we will still get them to you as soon as possible.
>  
> Kind regards,
>  
> Rachael
>  
> From: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca <mailto:john@foliot.ca>>
> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:33 PM
> To: Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com <mailto:charles.adams@oracle.com>>
> Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>, Silver TF <public-silver@w3.org <mailto:public-silver@w3.org>>
> Subject: Re: AGENDA and Surveys - AGWG Meeting September 28th 2021
> Resent-From: <public-silver@w3.org <mailto:public-silver@w3.org>>
> Resent-Date: Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:32 PM
>  
> Thank you Chuck, 
>  
> Re Item #2: Measuring Success, based on Alt Text - is there any background to that which could be reviewed prior to the call? I am struggling to understand this topic in context.
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> JF
>  
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 4:50 PM Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com <mailto:charles.adams@oracle.com>> wrote:
> The joint AGWG and Silver taskforce meeting will be meeting on Tuesday, 28th  September 2021 at 11.00 AM Eastern US (Length: up to 2 hours).
>  
> Agenda
> ·         CEPC reminder (5 min)
> ·         Measuring Success, based on Alt Text (80 min)
> ·         WCAG 2.2 Focus visible (Q1-3) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcag22-focus-appearance-enhanced2/ <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2Fwcag22-focus-appearance-enhanced2%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbailey%40access-board.gov%7Cb47bae0b323f435fa2a608d97ef6b676%7Cfc6093f5e55e4f93b2cf26d0822201c9%7C0%7C0%7C637680420370375462%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pmIGZdtLaLxJHCbdmAqITekpRoUUyfaTR4QfZCZ2mdA%3D&reserved=0>
> ·         WCAG 2.2 Visible controls (Q1-2) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcag22-visible-controls/ <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2Fwcag22-visible-controls%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbailey%40access-board.gov%7Cb47bae0b323f435fa2a608d97ef6b676%7Cfc6093f5e55e4f93b2cf26d0822201c9%7C0%7C0%7C637680420370385417%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=XH0S78d%2FplBRRE6Ga63AUJG0uQOYjLI2QqQ6KQeRW2U%3D&reserved=0>
>  
>  
> Please reply with regrets to group-ag-chairs@w3.org <mailto:group-ag-chairs@w3.org> (only) if you would normally attend this meeting.
>  
> To connect to the meeting:
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