Re: Visible controls

Hey Alastair,

> I hadn’t read it that way because the visible entry point is not there
based on hover/focus. It is not an instance where something can be hidden
until hover or focus (so not an exception), it is saying that the ‘visible
entry point’ is the ‘Information needed to identify user interface
components’, and it’s visible!


RIght, but the SC doesn't say it's only applicable to controls that show up
on hover or focus. It applies to all UICs, which apparently includes
components before they are even rendered. It seems to me that that is the
real problem; how can something be a user interface component; something
that is "perceived by users as a single control" before it is even
rendered? How can you perceive something that isn't in the DOM?


I know this gets a little wordy, but I think the way to fix this is to
explicitly scope this to UICs that appear on hover or focus. So you'd get
something like:



*For user interface components that appear on pointer hover or focus,
information needed to identify that user interface components is visible
without requiring pointer hover or keyboard focus, except when:*


Kind regards,



On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 7:03 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
wrote:

> Hi Wilco,
>
>
>
> Just re-ordering slightly as I think the last is the most important:
>
>
>
> > 3. The "visible entry point" bit should not be in a note. This is an
> exception to the SC. Notes are not normative, and so they can not contain
> exceptions.
>
>
>
> I hadn’t read it that way because the visible entry point is not there
> based on hover/focus. It is not an instance where something can be hidden
> until hover or focus (so not an exception), it is saying that the ‘visible
> entry point’ is the ‘Information needed to identify user interface
> components’, and it’s visible!
>
>
>
>
>
> > 2. "Visible entry point" is too vague in my opinion. It is not a
> commonly understood term, nor is it defined anywhere in WCAG. People are
> left to guess what should and shouldn't count as a visible entry point.
>
>
>
> Perhaps a re-wording is in order then, something like:
>
> “User interface components can be hidden behind other, persistently
> visible components such as sub-menus, edit buttons, or thumbnails of media.”
>
>
>
>
>
> > 1. The word "control" is still used. It was taken out of the exceptions
> list, but not the SC title or the note.
>
> There’s an update to the branch coming in soon to take care of the other
> instances, but the name of the SC is interesting, I’m not very keen on any
> of these:
>
>    - Visible User Interface Components (too long/wordy)
>    - Visible Components (doesn’t indicate interactive)
>
>
>
> Perhaps:
>
>    - Visible Interactions
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> -Alastair
>


-- 
*Wilco Fiers*
Axe-core product owner - Co-facilitator WCAG-ACT - Chair ACT-R


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