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Re: Using preformatted text or excluding preformatting text as an exception to no two dimensional scrolling as failure for Reflow 1.4.10

From: Wayne Dick <wayneedick@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:47:31 -0800
Message-ID: <CAJeQ8SAj6-szQh28fjB2od4oC=pj1BF_XviqrLMSMHWU+vkMqg@mail.gmail.com>
To: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
Cc: Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <josh@interaccess.ie>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Does someone want to work on some explicit techniques with me. I see a
couple of issues:

1) When is Pre necessary to usage or meaning? I think we should group
source this. That is send out for candidates that fit this hypothesis?
2) When common usages of pre do not meet the "usage or meaning" hypothesis,
how can they be fixed?

It seems like most of the 'bad' cases are really trying some kind of
irregular table-like format. Consider properly indented code. It is an
irregular table. Columns begin at variable points in the line and extend to
the end. This analogy is not exact enough to fail the table example, but it
is similar. How do we fix it? Do we use another system of elements to
produce the desired result? Or do we restrict the way authors can use pre
elements to designate a particular content type?

In the case of code, reflow means word-wrapping in a form that preserves
the indentation. This is because it enables all users to perceive the block
structure at a glance. Remember, we are talking about depicting code, not
actual code. The character set is quite different. ie. < is &lt; etc. One
of the problems of making display code accessible is that it is not as
regular as is code for compilation and running.

Anyone interested... Patrick maybe.  This could be fun.

Best, Wayne

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 8:37 AM David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> I think a conforming solution to this would be to have a "wrap lines"
> button above (top right) of the preformatted section.
>
> github browser file editor has an rough example this could work (although
> I understand there are other issues with github reflow)
>
> This could be a general technique.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
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> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 3:53 AM Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <
> josh@interaccess.ie> wrote:
>
>> Alastair Campbell wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> Going back to the original question, that was a placeholder indicating we
>> think there’s a technique there. Dissecting the exact wording it not
>> helpful at this stage, it hasn’t been drafted.
>>
>> Thanks Alastair thats helpful (and all for contributions). I guess, I am
>> trying to understand the intent, but appreciate that in its current draft
>> trying to unpick it may not be useful.
>>
>> I guess, the issue with having placeholder techniques, when there may be
>> little existing techniques for any given SC can be confusing for people who
>> are looking for 'how to' advice.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> There is a core question about whether information is lost when typical
>> ‘pre’ content is wrapped, and if there are reasonable techniques for
>> overcoming that information loss.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne outlined the use-case, Patrick outlined some possibilities.
>>
>>
>>
>> It needs someone to take it on and write up, OR, perhaps it would be
>> better to create a positive technique for wrapping code snippets?
>>
>>
>>
>> E.g. Technique: Using CSS pre-wrap to allow code examples to wrap.
>>
>>
>>
>> People could supplement that with some of the methods Patrick outlined,
>> but that’s a good start, and doesn’t have the issues with having to apply
>> to all-possible content (that the failure does).
>>
>>
>>
>> I opened an issue for pre-wrap for our own specs a while ago:
>>
>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/423
>>
>>
>>
>> Just need to get around to adding that to the techniques/understanding
>> CSS.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joshue O Connor
>> Director | InterAccess.ie
>>
>

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Received on Wednesday, 30 January 2019 21:48:30 UTC

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