RE: What to work on next

Personally I would like to see work on just a few (4/5 max) new 2.2  SC very important to be added to the list.
Next to that start working on a basic framework for 3.0 and incrementally release in an agile way, not/never a big bang.

A complete 3.0 will take way too much time not to release anything else in the meantime so this means we’ll have a 2.x and 3.0 temporarily next to each other.


From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com]
Sent: dinsdag 10 juli 2018 15:41
To: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>; Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com>
Cc: Newton, Brooks (Legal) <Brooks.Newton@thomsonreuters.com>; Mike Elledge <melledge@yahoo.com>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>
Subject: Re: What to work on next

With the challenges we have had with charters, I’m not confident that we can give ourselves a loose charter. Increasingly the focus of comments is to demand a well-incubated standard when chartering. We don’t necessarily need to meet that expectation completely to get a charter approved, but we do need to have the clarity around whether the spec is a small/medium/large.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Head of Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
http://twitter.com/awkawk


From: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>>
Date: Monday, July 9, 2018 at 17:56
To: Katie GMAIL <ryladog@gmail.com<mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>>
Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>, "Newton, Brooks (Legal)" <Brooks.Newton@thomsonreuters.com<mailto:Brooks.Newton@thomsonreuters.com>>, Mike Elledge <melledge@yahoo.com<mailto:melledge@yahoo.com>>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>>
Subject: Re: What to work on next

What if in the charter we give ourselves permission to go big, but permission for that next big thing to roll out incrementally, or even for the next iteration to be small if we haven't yet solved all the big issues?

In other words, we charter to investigate and pursue the big ideas in Silver, see which if any are attainable in the desired 18 month (or whatever) window,  then bite off the right size chunk. It might be a very small chunk or it might be a revolutionary shift... but we'll make the right choice based on what is best for the worldwide accessibility ecosystem in the time frame ordered upon us by the powers that be.

We give ourselves permission in the charter to make it as small or as big as makes sense, once we get deep into it. We won't know that beforehand.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
Mobile:  613.806.9005

LinkedIn
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C7b24100cd7fd4338780a08d5e5ffea3d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667809671361016&sdata=%2F4IDPQICtH9GWxce5MM6eozyhbzOIwVHXixKY9l41HI%3D&reserved=0>

twitter.com/davidmacd<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C7b24100cd7fd4338780a08d5e5ffea3d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667809671361016&sdata=O7GC5hY5S599ILr%2Feev68FmM2Dw%2F28hf4hdWAAFtMAY%3D&reserved=0>

GitHub<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C7b24100cd7fd4338780a08d5e5ffea3d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667809671371025&sdata=5JskZl8q2cNWdmHQCqdTX9VLGwWD5epHDwbzhNAfzJA%3D&reserved=0>

www.Can-Adapt.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C7b24100cd7fd4338780a08d5e5ffea3d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667809671381035&sdata=modH5kzXg0jL3sLDU2csLSWIJJjQzfZBLWxJKg1AG%2FI%3D&reserved=0>



  Adapting the web to all users
            Including those with disabilities

If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C7b24100cd7fd4338780a08d5e5ffea3d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667809671381035&sdata=phiGuzrXCC6CcTOdmcd308SmFkMlVy3Sm5V5zDO3ZJ0%3D&reserved=0>

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com<mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>> wrote:
A "clear enough vision for Silver" hopefully will be built around 'quality' and 'completeness' of the specification, and a true consensus around publication - over some arbitrary browser spec-like driven timeline. A charter can (and should) prioritize how it chooses - and push-back/negotiate on harmful constraints.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018, 6:54 PM Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:
I think that we all would prefer to be focusing our energies on the next big thing, but this gets us into the practical realities of doing so.

My key questions:
What if we knew that silver would take 18 months to publish? 4 years to publish?
Do we have a clear enough vision for Silver that we would be able to successfully recharter?

This is why we need to talk about the Silver requirements now, so we can figure out enough about the overall project to make good guesses about how it will take shape.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Head of Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
http://twitter.com/awkawk<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C7b24100cd7fd4338780a08d5e5ffea3d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667809671391039&sdata=lOsya2W8ZrcT9yeTIQJT1mBwIg%2FdKri1GkdIhk5MXbI%3D&reserved=0>

From: "Newton, Brooks (Legal)" <Brooks.Newton@thomsonreuters.com<mailto:Brooks.Newton@thomsonreuters.com>>
Date: Monday, July 9, 2018 at 13:34
To: Mike Elledge <melledge@yahoo.com<mailto:melledge@yahoo.com>>, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>>
Subject: RE: RE: What to work on next
Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Monday, July 9, 2018 at 13:34

I’m onboard with moving to Silver next.  We need all of our talent and experience focused on developing a single standard.

Brooks

From: Mike Elledge [mailto:melledge@yahoo.com<mailto:melledge@yahoo.com>]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 3:26 PM
To: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>; White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>>
Subject: Re: RE: What to work on next

This makes sense to me also.

On Monday, July 9, 2018, 4:24:35 PM EDT, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>> wrote:



I support David’s analysis here. It seems to me that the difficulties encountered in extending WCAG 2.x are largely attributable to problems with its design and assumptions, which only Silver offers the opportunity to revisit.



I also agree with David that extending WCAG 2.x further would offer diminishing returns relative to the work required to do so, and that focusing on Silver would be a more productive effort. In addition, a possible WCAG 2.2 would have a very limited life-time, as it would probably be superseded by Silver within a few years – assuming that the schedule of the latter remains reasonable. I’m allowing for some slippage in that regard, but even so, I think the point still holds.



From: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:00 PM
To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: What to work on next



As I know I don't think we've made a decision about what were working on next. It could be 2.2 or it could be silver.



My thinking at this point  is that it might be best to go directly to Silver. Here's my reasoning:

  *   Currently in the 2.1 and 2.2 series we are basically locked into backwards compatibility constraints. The trouble we had getting new requirements into 2.1 will be repeated in 2.2. There are not a lot of issues that we tabled for 2.2 that we can successfully address any better than we could in 2.1. Perhaps we could do some more work on target size and a couple of things like that but it doesn't sound like we can do much more Until new assistive technologies come out or new specifications for instance for COGA.
  *   Currently silver is under development and many of us could contribute to that effort if we weren't working on another interim version of WCAG. I think it would be better if we consolidate our efforts and work on the same next big problem which is fleshing out the plausibility of "measurability"  versus " testability"  and seeing if this is a viable way forward for the standard .
  *   I'd be more comfortable if we were all working together on the problem rather than in tandem where most of us can't give it more than a passing glance to what's going on with silver because we have our heads down on the current version.

I'm interested in other people's opinions.



Cheers,
David MacDonald



CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

Mobile:  613.806.9005

LinkedIn
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.linkedin.com-252Fin-252Fdavidmacdonald100-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cjjwhite-2540ets.org-257C3642bf4a5afb46ef085708d5e5ce6526-257C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65-257C0-257C0-257C636667596975927717-26sdata-3D8MZMv89FujzHZN-252BpXJiOTovcgRUdIwt3zkang4PifxM-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3D4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY%26r%3DW3VUihr49D2x8upR4FtjMIsy0FSGEnqb4ghTiQJMtRw%26m%3DYt_N3RLAX8JPSXiW1H893ge25nbTKZ-YQ19dYxnOevI%26s%3DHnNTgD-p430pm25aRsst9mbWQMPJynIL77TjQJAwnJ8%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cfe013bebf45c4b3bf35008d5e5db686e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667652874447112&sdata=rKFEj%2BALH4KlsfHUwCMi4qfN7f1aE7L%2FWZ8wQoImHyY%3D&reserved=0>

twitter.com/davidmacd<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Ftwitter.com-252Fdavidmacd-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cjjwhite-2540ets.org-257C3642bf4a5afb46ef085708d5e5ce6526-257C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65-257C0-257C0-257C636667596975937726-26sdata-3DDBTBM4PXxSLy3mOnLBSiXRrEN5mw7BHJ9e8IOqCXaxc-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3D4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY%26r%3DW3VUihr49D2x8upR4FtjMIsy0FSGEnqb4ghTiQJMtRw%26m%3DYt_N3RLAX8JPSXiW1H893ge25nbTKZ-YQ19dYxnOevI%26s%3DpO4amrQi-UwzSpPozxfS6pgfb90LfjTWTtADZr0NLUc%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cfe013bebf45c4b3bf35008d5e5db686e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667652874447112&sdata=sLh952wOkxgaN1FzkoiOe%2FN1iDQqlK6mbVpsTOQ86k8%3D&reserved=0>

GitHub<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252FDavidMacDonald-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cjjwhite-2540ets.org-257C3642bf4a5afb46ef085708d5e5ce6526-257C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65-257C0-257C1-257C636667596975947734-26sdata-3D7yBrQpTFhdi-252FvtjQe4Aqp-252BWZJMPbgbkPEpWZz7QTa8g-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3D4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY%26r%3DW3VUihr49D2x8upR4FtjMIsy0FSGEnqb4ghTiQJMtRw%26m%3DYt_N3RLAX8JPSXiW1H893ge25nbTKZ-YQ19dYxnOevI%26s%3D1yqFV4WsUKVWZjrZ_0sgDhNqxmS4k7sq1Re6kkCp4Dg%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cfe013bebf45c4b3bf35008d5e5db686e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667652874457116&sdata=KdYuwESOJXa%2F5%2FQwb5UflLrZeBB6NlEoocRdgcrJ%2FOk%3D&reserved=0>

www.Can-Adapt.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.can-2Dadapt.com-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cjjwhite-2540ets.org-257C3642bf4a5afb46ef085708d5e5ce6526-257C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65-257C0-257C1-257C636667596975957747-26sdata-3DluBayfw1XEjzSP0gSlyY44eWeh9UlvUPUYg0yXEV3aE-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3D4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY%26r%3DW3VUihr49D2x8upR4FtjMIsy0FSGEnqb4ghTiQJMtRw%26m%3DYt_N3RLAX8JPSXiW1H893ge25nbTKZ-YQ19dYxnOevI%26s%3DPLdq6pr5e6ds1JhjMVPjgmQphgH3Sm8vE_6GU8dLkj0%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cfe013bebf45c4b3bf35008d5e5db686e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667652874457116&sdata=O85KAnEF9Y2N249ACuNr8%2B6zP8RDzcjyXTvcPV%2BVzgQ%3D&reserved=0>



  Adapting the web to all users

            Including those with disabilities


If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.davidmacd.com-252Fdisclaimer.html-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cjjwhite-2540ets.org-257C3642bf4a5afb46ef085708d5e5ce6526-257C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65-257C0-257C1-257C636667596975957747-26sdata-3DSMY2GxauYWDsRRJohdbHQZzSZY88dW5lufU2qZteSuE-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3D4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY%26r%3DW3VUihr49D2x8upR4FtjMIsy0FSGEnqb4ghTiQJMtRw%26m%3DYt_N3RLAX8JPSXiW1H893ge25nbTKZ-YQ19dYxnOevI%26s%3DflAO0Gpg1TGBTja_GSuTcsH5XWafhXjUQmdsN1MfSuw%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cfe013bebf45c4b3bf35008d5e5db686e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636667652874467121&sdata=CkNPhMYwwVAP6D1unaRbD2ElRgG7vlv76BMVoMDxvGI%3D&reserved=0>

________________________________

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.


Thank you for your compliance.

________________________________


-----------------------------------------------------------------
ATTENTION:
The information in this e-mail is confidential and only meant for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, don't use or disclose it in any way. Please let the sender know and delete the message immediately.
-----------------------------------------------------------------