Re: 1.3.5 from Mark

Hi Alastair, All,

> However, I’d rather have a discussion of “accessibility-support” after
the immediate deadline.

I think I have to push back on this, as this was the very reason why we had
to remove the common link types and common button types from SC 1.3.4: the
lack of consuming tools - aka "accessibility support" - in the marketplace
today. I had previously mapped all of those links and button types to
Schema.org ontology during TPAC week in San Francisco, but *the lack of
tools to consume that metadata* was the reason for the trimming of the
original SC earlier this spring.

To now come forward and say that a non-standard (heck,
no-longer-being-worked-on) technique, using non-existent ARIA attributes
(aria-importance? aria-function? I cannot even find records of these
long-ago proposed attributes), meets the minimum requirement is, to my
mind, too far off the cow-path. It's not a cow-path, it's a wandering in
the cow-field, amongst the weeds. At least with the AUI-* examples, it is
demonstrating an idea using current Draft attributes (which I still
struggle with, as I believe even those attributes may not live through to
completion of the Personalization spec, as written today). However, it at
least aligns with our current bigger-picture thinking, unlike the long-ago
proposed new ARIA attributes (that was soundly rejected by many during TPAC
Sapporo).

Additionally, if we are going to be *that* accepting of
techniques/solutions to exit CR, then I would like to propose/suggest that
a web-page or site that applied @title values to all of those critical
regions, icons and page components would also meet the minimum requirement
(as the text string that is the value of @title is a programmatically
associated "purpose" - or at least it could be) that also has existing
user-agent support. (Although I do acknowledge that most screen readers are
configured to not announce @title values today - but that's a user-setting.)

The suggested @title technique does very little to support
"Personalization/Customization", although via the "tool-tips" it does make
page components (etc.) more easily understood (*if* the @title text is
written properly - the same general issue with alt text appropriateness).

In fact, I would argue that a page configured as I described above would be
*more* illustrative of "programmatically determinable purpose" than Lisa's
now 2+ year old demo that was created to support a collection of attributes
now long-since gone.

Lisa's demo is a wonderful illustration of what we want to achieve, but I
could also knock out a Flash video of the same kind of proposed
functionality for illustrative purposes, but the means by which I did that
would not be acceptable at scale in the marketplace either - it's a
demonstration of outcomes, without using a standardized methodology. I
think using that demo in the larger educational piece is appropriate, but
as an example to meet the exit criteria? That I cannot accept.

JF

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
wrote:

> Thanks,
>
>
>
> I’ve added Lisa’s demo to the list as well, called “Personalization Demo -
> rawgit / 1.3.5 Identify Purpose”.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> -Alastair
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com>
> *Sent:* 30 March 2018 16:35
> *To:* Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> *Cc:* Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <josh@interaccess.ie>; lisa.seeman <
> lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> *Subject:* RE: 1.3.5 from Mark
>
>
>
> Mark’s page does demonstrate Regions, UI controls and Icons.  It’s a pass.
>
>
>
> *From:* Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2018 9:33 AM
> *To:* Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com>
> *Cc:* Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <josh@interaccess.ie>; lisa.seeman <
> lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> *Subject:* RE: 1.3.5 from Mark
>
>
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
>
>
> At this stage I think we need to focus on the SC, in this case we need
> something that has some programmatic identification of the *purpose* for
> these types of content when relevant:
>
>    - Regions
>    - UI controls
>    - Icons
>
>
>
> And (because it’s about personalisation) show that something can be done
> to them based on that.
>
>
>
> It doesn’t require that a particular standard is used for the metadata,
> although obviously we do need to have documentation for that PDQ after
> this. However, I’d rather have a discussion of “accessibility-support”
> after the immediate deadline.
>
>
>
> The AUI example [1] does have programmatically associations for each of
> the types of content in scope, and (with the styles applied via plugin)
> does something with them. If you agree, that should pass.
>
>
>
> The older version on rawgit [2] has some links which are not covered, but
> things like ‘sports’ are unlikely to be covered by a standard. It does mark
> the purpose of the regions (via role), and some of the links: home, about,
> contact-us, sitemap. That is via ‘aria-function’, which isn’t the current
> form but the page itself implements the personalisation.
>
> It also marks the purpose of the form elements, so I think it has covered
> 2 of the 3 items in the SC text.
>
>
>
> It doesn’t cover icons, but it doesn’t have any (without the
> customisation), so that is not a fail, it just doesn’t demonstrate that
> aspect because there isn’t content for it.
>
>
>
> So I’m going to pass that, with the caveat that I need to discuss with the
> chairs if we need another example on icons, I’m not sure of the policy
> around that sort of coverage.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> -Alastair
>
>
>
> 1] https://a11y-resources.com/developer/adaptable-ui-
> personalisation-example
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__a11y-2Dresources.com_developer_adaptable-2Dui-2Dpersonalisation-2Dexample&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=b-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c&m=x4fDSU6mQ2kEeEbZoANH7XTkWV03KCcYY9w56ZI3kRs&s=Csd5NB7gjKxwXQSjuHS9K7Zyz52n2JrBDaw2ElIn0zY&e=>
>
> 2] https://rawgit.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation/
> demo/conactUs.html
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__rawgit.com_ayelet-2Dseeman_coga.personalisation_demo_conactUs.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=b-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c&m=x4fDSU6mQ2kEeEbZoANH7XTkWV03KCcYY9w56ZI3kRs&s=l9AbLpizzlCfnV6Ho2OPUwIctKT8LlpEaj_pIVx-gC8&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com>
> *Sent:* 30 March 2018 15:44
> *To:* Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <josh@interaccess.ie>; lisa.seeman <
> lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> *Subject:* RE: 1.3.5 from Mark
>
>
>
> I still do not see an implementation entry for https://a11y-resources.com/
> developer/adaptable-ui-personalisation-example
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__a11y-2Dresources.com_developer_adaptable-2Dui-2Dpersonalisation-2Dexample&d=DwMFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=b-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c&m=2LFj8eVYjrEBzAShPLZ69n5xtbYoU4sfr3aarfppmso&s=EX2QTvMhHySlHdLjjsnuRkzRZPzKSWzhdkLB2Hb76Gs&e=>
> on https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_GL_WCAG21_CR_implementations&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=b-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c&m=x4fDSU6mQ2kEeEbZoANH7XTkWV03KCcYY9w56ZI3kRs&s=23y5sBKw1qNATacgGiKHYPemjDDtJAnYKwyVOfBDl10&e=>.
> There is a similar entry toward the top (45h down:
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementation_
> experience?implementation_id=141
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_GL_WCAG21_CR_implementation-5Fexperience-3Fimplementation-5Fid-3D141&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=b-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c&m=x4fDSU6mQ2kEeEbZoANH7XTkWV03KCcYY9w56ZI3kRs&s=-IECpIOXmJBhrn97dA-YM0EKP5bAwixvwymEcYo6FkQ&e=>),
> but that refers to https://a11y-resources.com/developer/adaptable-ui-
> personalisation
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__a11y-2Dresources.com_developer_adaptable-2Dui-2Dpersonalisation&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=b-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c&m=x4fDSU6mQ2kEeEbZoANH7XTkWV03KCcYY9w56ZI3kRs&s=9kwH5LTPdDSh35GLlYgFx9YlxkBM1fXLgHj8o9bHK9s&e=>
> and not https://a11y-resources.com/developer/adaptable-ui-
> personalisation-example
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__a11y-2Dresources.com_developer_adaptable-2Dui-2Dpersonalisation-2Dexample&d=DwMFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=b-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c&m=2LFj8eVYjrEBzAShPLZ69n5xtbYoU4sfr3aarfppmso&s=EX2QTvMhHySlHdLjjsnuRkzRZPzKSWzhdkLB2Hb76Gs&e=>
> .
>
>
>
> If someone could add the implementation record (I am gun shy given the
> various conversations we’ve had about double entries and removed entries)
> or point me to the existing entry (that I cannot find), I’ll write up my
> evaluation.
>
>
>
> I like the adaptable-ui-personalisation-example because while the page
> made use of some non-standard attributes, it’s content included some
> documentation/explanation on the page that pushes me over the hump and I
> think would be most helpful to outside viewers.
>
>
>
> *From:* Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <josh@interaccess.ie>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2018 3:33 AM
> *To:* lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: 1.3.5 from Mark
>
>
>
> Thanks Lisa - thats great!
>
>
>
> I'll test also.
>
>
>
> __
>
> Joshue O Connor
>
> Director / *InterAccess.ie*
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: "lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>
>
> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>
> Sent: 30/03/2018 00:45:59
>
> Subject: 1.3.5 from Mark
>
>
>
> Mark submitted a test site for 1.3.5 to Alister and Chuck at
> https://a11y-resources.com/developer/adaptable-ui-personalisation-example
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__a11y-2Dresources.com_developer_adaptable-2Dui-2Dpersonalisation-2Dexample&d=DwMFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=b-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c&m=2LFj8eVYjrEBzAShPLZ69n5xtbYoU4sfr3aarfppmso&s=EX2QTvMhHySlHdLjjsnuRkzRZPzKSWzhdkLB2Hb76Gs&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
> All the best
>
>
>
> Lisa Seeman
>
>
>
> LinkedIn, Twitter
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
john.foliot@deque.com

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion