- From: Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <josh@interaccess.ie>
- Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 12:01:45 +0000
- To: tink@tink.uk, "Andrew Kirkpatrick" <akirkpat@adobe.com>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
------ Original Message ------ From: "Léonie Watson" <tink@tink.uk> To: "Joshue O Connor - InterAccess" <josh@interaccess.ie>; "Andrew Kirkpatrick" <akirkpat@adobe.com>; "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> [...] >Thanks for clarifying this Josh. If the intent is for authors to use >one (or more) of the tokens defined in HTML, the phrase "maps to" might >be misleading. > >When something maps to something else, it means the two things have the >same meaning but may not be exactly the same. The phrase "last name" >maps to the word "surname", but they're evidently not exactly the same. Thats an interesting observation Leonie - I guess though it is still a relevant term, at least as I see it, there may be a difference between the base token (a la HTML autofill) and the common purpose it is used to indicate, so my gut is that 'maps to..' is an accurate term. Happy to hear from others on this, thanks. Josh > > > > >Perhaps the text could be modified to : "one of the token values >defined in HTML5.2...", or something of the sort? > > > >On 16/01/2018 10:34, Joshue O Connor - InterAccess wrote: >>------ Original Message ------ >>From: "Léonie Watson" <tink@tink.uk> >>[...] >> >>>Is the intent of this SC for authors to use one (or more) of the HTML >>>tokens exactly as defined, or for authors to use any token that maps >>>to one of the tokens defined in HTML? >> >>Thanks Leonie - My understanding is that the intent is (for now) >>authors to use the HTML tokens that come from the autofill values that >>can effectively map to a 'common purpose'. >> >>There have been many conversations about 'rolling your own' schema etc >>but for now to get the ball rolling we want to leverage/reference the >>HTML 5.2 autofill values to help developers portray the intent or >>purpose of their widgets. >> >>HTH >> >>Josh >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On 15/01/2018 17:50, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote: >>>>What I’m hearing is that we are in general agreement that: >>>> >>>> * The HTML 5.2 autofill values for the common input purposes are ok >>>> and we will not include the purposes that are not input-related >>>> * The list can’t change over time >>>> * The purposes need to relate to the user directly, not inputs >>>>related >>>> to someone else >>>> >>>>Other points that we don’t have general agreement on: >>>> >>>> * Limit this to markup >>>> * Limit this to HTML >>>> * Put the list into WCAG 2.1 vs referencing the list in a >>>> date-specific HTML version (e.g. 5.2) >>>> * Include the “for the user” aspect in the SC text vs the list >>>> >>>>My best attempt on this this that I like is: >>>> >>>>In content implemented using technologies with support for >>>>identifying the expected meaning for form input data, for each >>>>user-specific input field that has a purpose that maps to any of the >>>>[link]HTML 5.2 Autofill field names, the meaning of the input field >>>>can be programmatically determined. >>>> >>>>The reasons I like this relate to the items that we don’t have >>>>general agreement on: >>>> >>>>1. Not limited to any technology, as technologies like PDF and >>>>mobile >>>> frameworks and software evolve this can still be applied. >>>>2. Same as #1 above >>>>3. If we put it into our spec, we are adding to our localization >>>> burden, understanding burden, editorial burden, and will deal >>>>with >>>> the “add this to WCAG’s list” questions. Referencing the external >>>> list, stable and date-bound, makes sense to me. External >>>>standards >>>> (read EN 301 549) that incorporate WCAG 2.1 SC won’t need to >>>>worry >>>> about also adding the list because it is referenced. >>>>4. “the user” is part of the SC and it is not going to get lost as >>>>part >>>> of a separate list. And, since I’m linking to the external list, >>>>we >>>> need to add it. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>> >>>>AWK >>>> >>>>Andrew Kirkpatrick >>>> >>>>Group Product Manager, Accessibility >>>> >>>>Adobe >>>> >>>>akirkpat@adobe.com >>>> >>>>http://twitter.com/awkawk >>>> >>>>*From: *David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> >>>>*Date: *Monday, January 15, 2018 at 12:25 >>>>*To: *Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com> >>>>*Cc: *CAE-Vanderhe <gregg@raisingthefloor.org>, "Abma, J.D. (Jake)" >>>><Jake.Abma@ing.nl>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, >>>>"lisa.seeman@zoho.com" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>, WCAG >>>><w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, Amihai Miron <amihai@user1st.com> >>>>*Subject: *Re: Dealy in "Common Purposes" >>>> >>>>Hi Alastair >>>> >>>> > With it focusing on HTML’s autofill attributes, there has been >>>>widespread browser support for years >>>> >>>>Yes absolutely... further in >>>> >>>>my >>>> >>>> email I suggested that we consider limiting the SC to HTML. >>>> >>>>With each of Gregg's questions the only clear answer I was able to >>>>come up with was HTML autofill. However, Léonie is making a good >>>>case against referencing HTML directly and sticking with our list in >>>>the spec... I think Lisa would rather also prefer our list instead >>>>of referencing HMTL 5.2 ... so ... >>>> >>>>Lisa >>>> >>>>I would like to see a more robust answer to Gregg's questions other >>>>than implementations are in place and coming... so far I haven't >>>>seen an explanation of how this will work, and the implementations >>>>I've seen seem to be general personalization widgets rather than an >>>>implementation of a set of form fields with a mapping functionality >>>>back to our common purposes... >>>> >>>>Here are Gregg's questions: >>>> >>>>===== >>>> >>>> how are different languages and different taxonomies being handled? >>>> >>>>how does the AT find the mapping of new terms back to the >>>>definitions in WCAG? >>>> >>>>·how does AT know the format of the map? >>>> >>>>·it is machine readable? >>>> >>>>·how does the AT find that map? >>>> >>>>===== >>>> >>>>Are you saying >>>> >>>>schema >>>> >>>>, >>>> >>>>microdata >>>> >>>>, >>>> >>>> COGA attributes will all map back to our numbered list >>>> >>>> in these mapping documents that sit in the AT? If there are >>>>currently no implementations of this, is it reasonable to at least >>>>provide a step by step description of how it will work once >>>>implemented. >>>> >>>> >>>>Cheers, >>>>David MacDonald >>>> >>>>*Can**Adapt**Solutions Inc.* >>>> >>>>Tel: 613.235.4902 >>>> >>>>LinkedIn >>>><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C0592f609a08942953cf808d55c3ceb76%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636516339077263984&sdata=WRXOBqloqBrswc94U1ONt5%2F49bvn20rHHYAaBT3Mkio%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>>twitter.com/davidmacd >>>><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C0592f609a08942953cf808d55c3ceb76%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636516339077263984&sdata=kC9KmcGh6IRtN5wVoLzpX6miG5rId7I8lN1u7BdVLtg%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>>GitHub >>>><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C0592f609a08942953cf808d55c3ceb76%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636516339077263984&sdata=I1Uxffq2csz%2FQbYD%2B6iskRfkZkJWvu2EYN1llqtlbRA%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>>www.Can-Adapt.com >>>><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C0592f609a08942953cf808d55c3ceb76%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636516339077263984&sdata=xUstg6t4u63kO9B5u3jxA9PjzgLWPOuBrO6R2LDI%2BXE%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>>/ Adapting the web to *all* users/ >>>> >>>>/ Including those with disabilities/ >>>> >>>>If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy >>>>policy >>>><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C0592f609a08942953cf808d55c3ceb76%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636516339077263984&sdata=Yfel9lmu92Kav5LOuwSxD410uDtvAJGbku%2F%2FuLM2tIg%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>>On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Alastair Campbell >>>><acampbell@nomensa.com <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> *> *I share Gregg's concerns about the speculative nature of an >>>>SC >>>> that has no existing AT to make use of it >>>> >>>> Huh? With it focusing on HTML’s autofill attributes, there has >>>>been >>>> widespread browser support for years: >>>> >>>>https://caniuse.com/#search=autofil >>>><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcaniuse.com%2F%23search%3Dautofil&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C0592f609a08942953cf808d55c3ceb76%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636516339077263984&sdata=moiMm4vKZuW73WknjxWdn56CFeE5TMtT1V4v6WJ0VGA%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lisa also posted about a couple user-agent side implementations >>>>of >>>> the meta-data aspects, and 5 sites that are or will be using the >>>> more extended set now. >>>> >>>> Microdata is also standardised, but we seem to have dropped the >>>> non-autofil purposes, so I’ll stop there. >>>> >>>> -Alastair >>>> >>> >>>-- @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe Carpe diem >>> >> > >-- @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe Carpe diem
Received on Tuesday, 16 January 2018 12:02:19 UTC