Re: a suggestion for Personalization Semantics

The issue is this: adding a new Failure Technique to an existing SC that
now is requiring something that was not required in the 2.0 Rec is
effectively re-writing the Success Criteria.

And while yes, Techniques (both Failure and Success) are non-normative, we
have a small but significant issue: the non-normative Understanding
Techniques for WCAG Success Criteria
<https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20161007/understanding-techniques.html>
*specifically
states*:

Content that has a *failure* does not meet WCAG success criteria, unless an
alternate version is provided without the failure.

Since Techniques are non-normative, and are all collected in one location,
we do not have "2.0 Techniques" and separate but different "2.1
Techniques", we simply have "Techniques", all in one big bucket. If the WG
wants to change that, then the next required step would be to create that
distinction (but then... does that further make Techniques 'normative'?)

So retroactively adding a new Failure Technique that extends an existing SC
to require 'more' to the collection of existing techniques for SC 1.3.1,
effectively means that any and all documents that claim WCAG 2.0
conformance today that do not use landmark notation will suddenly become
non-conformant with the publishing of that non-normative yet strangely
"quasi-normative" Technique, due to the advisory text I have quoted. (And,
in fact, it is my personal belief that is exactly what David ultimately
wants, as he has previously publicly stated that one of his clients will
not add landmark regions unless it is specifically required by WCAG 2.0
normatively or via a Failure Technique.)

It is for this reason that WG members such as myself, James Nurthen/Oracle,
and Alex Li/Microsoft strongly opposed further pursuit of this initiative.
If we all feel that the presence of landmark elements or roles is important
enough to be required, then make it an actual requirement; don't try and
"back-door" it into the current Spec via a Technique on the most ambiguous
of all of our 2.0 Success Criteria (1.3.1).

JF

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Léonie Watson <tink@tink.uk> wrote:

> The techniques are informative not normative. So at best they are a
> recommendation from the WG on how to interpret a particular SC, they do not
> make something mandatory, or prohibit its use in meeting the SC in question.
>
>
>
>
> On 12/01/2018 15:11, David MacDonald wrote:
>
>>  >This Working Group has attempted to tackle this in the past, and the
>> W3C consensus position is that WCAG 2.0 does not mandate their use.
>>
>> My understanding is that the consensus was "not to take the action to add
>> a failure technique because of some members would not consent to adding it
>> ... that is not the same as saying we took an action to have "consensus to
>> not mandate their use",  ...  I don't provide my consensus to that proposal
>> which has never been proposed.
>>
>> Not having consensus on one thing does not mean we have consensus on
>> another.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David MacDonald
>>
>> *Can**Adapt**Solutions Inc.*
>>
>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>
>> LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd>
>>
>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>
>> /  Adapting the web to *all* users/
>>
>> /            Including those with disabilities/
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy <
>> http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com
>> <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     JF wrote:____
>>
>>     >we cannot retroactively say that they are *REQUIRED*, nor can we
>>     fail content that does not use either form of landmark
>>     determination. ____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     I agreed that In WCAG 2.0 we couldn’t add it, but why can’t we
>>     simple add a failure for that in 2.1?____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     It would be similar in concept to F91:____
>>
>>     https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/failures.html#F91
>>     <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/failures.html#F91> ____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     (I.e. lacking markup that the content implies visually, the point of
>>     1.3.1.)____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     Why would we need a new (very-overlapping) SC for that?____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     Create the new failure doc, link to up from 1.3.1 material… job
>>     done?____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>     -Alastair____
>>
>>     __ __
>>
>>
>>
> --
> @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe tink.uk carpe diem
>



-- 
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
john.foliot@deque.com

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion