RE: editorial to incorporate exception into main SC text for 1.4.13

+1 Agree, Andrew.

Redundant is fine as long as it provides clarity.

Kim

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 1:03 PM
To: White, Jason J; Detlev Fischer
Cc: James Nurthen; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Re: editorial to incorporate exception into main SC text for 1.4.13

I’d rather go back to my version with the redundant reference to “additional content” than deal with a new definition for this.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
http://twitter.com/awkawk


From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>>
Date: Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 13:51
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>, Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de<mailto:detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>>
Cc: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com<mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: editorial to incorporate exception into main SC text for 1.4.13

It probably needs a definition of “author-controlled content”, since it could be interpreted as implying, for example, that an HTML TITLE attribute is author-controlled, as its text is provided by the author.

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2018 1:22 PM
To: Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de<mailto:detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>>
Cc: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com<mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>>; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: Re: editorial to incorporate exception into main SC text for 1.4.13

I’m ok with that. Others?

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
http://twitter.com/awkawk<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Ftwitter.com-252Fawkawk-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Cdbf2bad8a1574e362fbe08d5553677e7-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C0-257C636508614835735780-26sdata-3D4EaVsDv6kFXH2AytWvWoMbg4BQpVaFiVjEcinHJd8uo-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=TNPSf5_s1C7GQN2fKXOGh6t05xN18F4fA5Kt3Nyy0IU&m=2t7V9deSGAM3DeLFBAegUYN7KwJ9160l2tM5ws3kUqs&s=8NNQj7CfE85t1BgVDvkqSc_x9igUZPdLhq-IdTlUIzI&e=>

From: Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de<mailto:detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>>
Date: Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 01:57
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>
Cc: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com<mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: editorial to incorporate exception into main SC text for 1.4.13

I think the repetition of "additional content" makes this latest proposal clumsier than necessary. This wording might be equally clear:

"When pointer hover or keyboard focus triggers the appearance of additional author-controlled content, the following are true:”

Detlev

On 6 Jan 2018, at 04:15, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:

I think that this makes it more clear and avoids pedantic grammatical debate:

When pointer hover or keyboard focus triggers additional content and the appearance of the additional content is controlled by the author, the following are true:


Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
http://twitter.com/awkawk<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Ftwitter.com-252Fawkawk-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Ca27106a979064fcf664508d554d2b286-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C0-257C636508186299599532-26sdata-3DyjyvUI8mUWsG-252BpxKouD8bA4V-252B0fqm8vxGYX-252FaQ3x2wQ-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=TNPSf5_s1C7GQN2fKXOGh6t05xN18F4fA5Kt3Nyy0IU&m=2t7V9deSGAM3DeLFBAegUYN7KwJ9160l2tM5ws3kUqs&s=mu-7h5p8MQl4HkWiEcgv-YNmFNfzNsrqGkYyDTMxKhk&e=>

From: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com<mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>>
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Friday, January 5, 2018 at 19:51
To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: editorial to incorporate exception into main SC text for 1.4.13
Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Friday, January 5, 2018 at 19:49

Re: issue 609<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fgithub.com-252Fw3c-252Fwcag21-252Fissues-252F609-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Ccb8337a7147c4d85879108d5549f9525-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C0-257C636507966733660618-26sdata-3DaTAV8Rru-252BZKRdfW6VT1PB-252FMRjWNA8w7UqHoO3Q3KNH0-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=TNPSf5_s1C7GQN2fKXOGh6t05xN18F4fA5Kt3Nyy0IU&m=2t7V9deSGAM3DeLFBAegUYN7KwJ9160l2tM5ws3kUqs&s=bCsXwGLzRsq1w7TfXXMdg7ZEr1mUdIv0ZArXyZauR_Q&e=> - can we use which here?

On 1/5/2018 4:17 PM, White, Jason J wrote:
I think C is the most accurate. B can be read as asserting that the additional content (not its appearance) is controlled by the author, which is always true.

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com]
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:46 PM
To: Alex Li (CELA) <alli@microsoft.com><mailto:alli@microsoft.com>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org><mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: Re: editorial to incorporate exception into main SC text for 1.4.13

Thanks Alex!

Other options:

B: When pointer hover or keyboard focus triggers @@the@@ appearance of additional content @@which@@ is @@controlled@@ by the author, the following are true:

C: When pointer hover or keyboard focus triggers additional content, @@the@@ appearance of @@which@@ is @@controlled@@ by the author, the following are true:

I think that by making this an affirmative condition for author involvement, we don’t need to worry about the “not controlled by the UA” part. The appearance is controlled by the author or it isn’t.

Thoughts?
AWK


Hi all,

Here’s my proposal:

Original SC text: “When pointer hover or keyboard focus triggers additional content to become visible, the following are true:”
Original exception text: “Exception: The visual presentation of the additional content is controlled by the user agent and is not modified by the author.”

Proposed SC text: “When pointer hover or keyboard focus triggers appearance of additional content that is modified by the author and not controlled by the user agent, the following are true:”

All best,
Alex Li
Corporate Standards Group
Corporate, External, and Legal Affairs, Microsoft
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