Re: Issue 650 Does the Hover or focus SC apply to tabbed interfaces?

Last but not least a note about the last NOTE:

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NOTE
Custom tooltips, sub-menus, and other nonmodal popups which display on hover and focus are examples of additional content covered by this criterion.
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Since we felt we needed to mention this list it strengthens the idea to scope this SC specifically to these kind of examples (popups). But now it's an open list (... are examples...) and so basically everything could be part of the list which makes it less clear what else is part of what we mean.



________________________________
From: Abma, J.D. (Jake)
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 2:52 PM
To: David MacDonald; Patrick H. Lauke
Cc: WCAG
Subject: Re: Issue 650 Does the Hover or focus SC apply to tabbed interfaces?


When going back to the roots, isn't this SC not totally based on content "blocking" other content by "floating" over that other content, causing problems understanding the information/relationship AND, especially when zoomed in, the 'floating' content disappearing when moving the mouse trying to read the floating content which is not in view?

By "floating" I mean all variations of tooltips, pop-overs, pop-outs, pop-ups, floating menu's etc. often caused by absolute positioned / z-index CSS.

If so, is this SC also necessary when this type of exposing information is not used?
We can as easily NOT use a pop-over / floating but show the information 'in-page' (pushing back the content a bit to reveal the "additional content"). We see this for instance when the focus is on an input field and showing help text beneath it. The help text, per field, is only visible on-focus.

I guess not, and, as this is also the case for tabs / finger tabs (not floating over other content) we could search for a way to have this SC only apply to the "floating part"...​



________________________________
From: Abma, J.D. (Jake)
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 2:26 PM
To: David MacDonald; Patrick H. Lauke
Cc: WCAG
Subject: Re: Issue 650 Does the Hover or focus SC apply to tabbed interfaces?


Agree with David about drawing a bright line and to clearly define the distinction.
The "Dismissable" sentence is not achievable for ARIA tabs and also for the similar finger tabs concept.

First thing I've tried was searching for the definition of "additional content" and couldn't find it.
It puts the term in a grey area which makes assumptions unfounded.

I see there's a definition for "supplemental content" which is "additional content that illustrates or clarifies the primary content". So if I put clarifying content for the primary content in a Tab structure with- or even without using ARIA, add it to a custom tooltip or using "finger tabs" which is very similar to ARIA tabs, that's a design choice based on the amount of information and aesthetics. As supplemental content is a subset of additional content you can't state:

"A tab set switches content, it doesn’t show additional content."

We "hide" supplemental/additional content in finger tabs to saved screen space and only load it when hovering or focus is on a finger tab. So it's not there on page load and you can't "dismiss" the finger tab content panel. The loading is also a developer choice, not a predetermined given.​



________________________________
From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:07 PM
To: Patrick H. Lauke
Cc: WCAG
Subject: Re: Issue 650 Does the Hover or focus SC apply to tabbed interfaces?

> That line could possibly be fixed with “...without *having to* move the pointer or keyboard focus” or words to that effect.


Maybe I'm missing something... I don't know how that would fix it. The only way that I can see being able to close a popup without "moving the pointer" or "without having to move the pointer" is by pressing the "esc" key, in which case it seems we are saying that it can be dismissed without use of the pointer??


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On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk<mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk>> wrote:
That line could possibly be fixed with “...without *having to* move the pointer or keyboard focus” or words to that effect.

P

On 7 Jan 2018, at 00:48, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
[...]
I do think the line "dismiss the additional content without moving pointer hover or keyboard focus" is weird, because the user has to move the pointer to hit the "x" ... how would a mouse user dismiss a popup without moving the mouse?



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