Re: wording for the introduction

I’m happy to agree to EA Draffan’s retention of “practice”, as I do think it important, but can live with David’s simplification.   The important point is that continuing research will help us inform the multi-faceted discussion needed to address cognitive accessibility and serve real user needs.

________________________________
From: EA Draffan <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 5:34:44 PM
To: David MacDonald; Hakkinen, Mark T
Cc: Katie Haritos-Shea; Andrew Kirkpatrick; Michael Gower; Chuck Adams; lisa.seeman; W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3. Org
Subject: RE: wording for the introduction

I am wondering if it is necessary to lose the  bit about practise as it is not just about the technologies….

What about …
"Work will carry on in this area as research continues to inform practice and technologies mature in the marketplace. "

Best wishes
E.A.

Mrs E.A. Draffan
WAIS, ECS , University of Southampton
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From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
Sent: 11 April 2018 22:07
To: Hakkinen, Mark T <mhakkinen@ets.org>
Cc: Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com>; Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>; Michael Gower <michael.gower@ca.ibm.com>; Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com>; lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3. Org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: Re: wording for the introduction

I'm fine with the friendly amendment...

The research sentence parses a little awkward with two "continues", perhaps this will fix it...

Although these guidelines cover many important issues, they cannot address the needs of every individual and every type, degree, and combination of disabilities.  Significant challenges remain in addressing cognitive, language and learning disabilities while ensuring that success criteria are consistently testable and implementable in all web pages across diverse languages and cultures.  Research will continue in this area as technologies mature in the marketplace.  We encourage authors to refer to our supplemental guidance on improving the user experience for people with learning and cognitive disabilities at: w3.org/XXX<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw3.org%2FXXX&data=02%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7Cea73d88ec0824ad9220c08d59ff40d66%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636590793005875470&sdata=boGQs%2B57dQrR6MhEMitqm3mLdcvGcDKRQH5H1zDKw6w%3D&reserved=0>


Cheers,
David MacDonald



CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

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On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Hakkinen, Mark T <mhakkinen@ets.org<mailto:mhakkinen@ets.org>> wrote:
I like David’s text but wanted to make two small alterations. One changes the text at “all languages and countries” and the other alludes to the importance of research to inform practice related to supporting cognitive disabilities and learning prior to “technologies mature”.  The revised text is below:

Although these guidelines cover many important issues, they cannot address the needs of every individual and every type, degree, and combination of disabilities.  Significant challenges remain in addressing cognitive, language and learning disabilities while ensuring that success criteria are consistently testable and implementable in all web pages across diverse languages and cultures.  Work will continue in this area as research continues to inform practice and technologies mature in the marketplace.  We encourage authors to refer to our supplemental guidance on improving the user experience for people with learning and cognitive disabilities at: w3.org/XXX<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw3.org%2FXXX&data=02%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7Cea73d88ec0824ad9220c08d59ff40d66%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636590793005885472&sdata=B8H9n5Abv4NQRLJblQopJfVDnYfcLnSC%2FTpES0ob%2BwU%3D&reserved=0>


Mark
--
Markku (Mark) T. Hakkinen, PhD
Head – Accessibility, Standards, and Assistive Technology Research Group
Center for Cognitive, Accessibility, and Technology Sciences
Educational Testing Service | Rosedale Road MS03C | Princeton, New Jersey 08541 USA
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From: Katie Haritos-Shea [mailto:ryladog@gmail.com<mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 4:23 PM
To: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>>
Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>; Michael Gower <michael.gower@ca.ibm.com<mailto:michael.gower@ca.ibm.com>>; Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com<mailto:charles.adams@oracle.com>>; lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>; W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3. Org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>

Subject: Re: wording for the introduction

+1 to David's version here.


* katie *

Katie Haritos-Shea
Principal ICT Accessibility Architect

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People may forget exactly what it was that you said or did,
but people will never forget how you made them feel.......

Our scars remind us of where we have been........they do not have to dictate where we are going.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 3:17 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
​PS I prefer the previous proposal​

Although these guidelines cover many important issues, they cannot address the needs of every individual and every type, degree, and combination of disabilities.  Significant challenges remain in addressing cognitive, language and learning disabilities while ensuring that success criteria are consistently testable and implementable across all web pages in many countries and languages.  Work will continue in this area as technologies mature in the marketplace.  We encourage authors to refer to our supplemental guidance on improving the user experience for people with learning and cognitive disabilities at: w3.org/XXX<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fw3.org-252Fwiki-252FXXX-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Cac6cf538ff7f4f79985408d5695e22ce-257C71f1da39c0a84d5a8d88a67b23c30bf4-257C0-257C0-257C636530775399673763-26sdata-3DGrYZL2lasjnVpdrjIo1f5C-252BFdUGhCrTZ31xWRlcFk1k-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE%26r%3Db-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c%26m%3DudwLMGrHfXokP0t9lzjTNJVTc9M9W2evJ6y9sDmJIyQ%26s%3DQ0wrPvpCnUG8vWGyW7ePUlxtJim_WamYm79e9viGI2g%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C24378f98915f428fef1808d59fea4db4%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636590751062493033&sdata=sOxI0NtEdF0kW7wrdmqyfhNG775h59O9VtmwYeErj%2Bk%3D&reserved=0>


Cheers,
David MacDonald



CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

Tel:  613.235.4902

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On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4:16 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
I would add something about internationalization in the rational for COGA as in my proposal... there are 3 main factors preventing the inclusion of many COGA requirements in WCAG


  1.  Testability
  2.  Implementation across all web pages
  3.  Internationalization, language issues where COGA help in one language can't transfer to another.


Cheers,
David MacDonald



CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

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On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:
Sharing a couple of alternatives I’ve worked on:


  1.  This version (https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/intro-dits-coga/guidelines/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fintro-dits-coga%2Fguidelines%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C24378f98915f428fef1808d59fea4db4%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636590751062493033&sdata=kBfV20YPtcEvuQgjMRdmaMZFQtprPYqukRvC0XZi%2B2A%3D&reserved=0>) includes:

  *   “more” in the second sentence of the abstract. No other changes to the abstract.
  *   Moved the “User Support” section to be higher in the introduction. https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/intro-dits-coga/guidelines/#user-support-in-wcag-2-1<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fintro-dits-coga%2Fguidelines%2F%23user-support-in-wcag-2-1&data=02%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C24378f98915f428fef1808d59fea4db4%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636590751062493033&sdata=LIztEmlsEl1SD0H9HdOBAKdaXcXNFPYlM%2BJ3MhuszIw%3D&reserved=0>
  *   Reworked the second paragraph to incorporate more of Lisa’s text but link to a general WCAG resources page.


  1.  This version (https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/intro-dits-coga2/guidelines/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fintro-dits-coga2%2Fguidelines%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C24378f98915f428fef1808d59fea4db4%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636590751062493033&sdata=BuzRMt2Dc7a%2FZeNwaI7fPk%2BBklro6wPhxucOJfb%2B80o%3D&reserved=0>) includes:

  *   “more” in the second sentence of the abstract. Also added “ for people with disabilities” to the second to last sentence of the first paragraph.
  *   Moved the “User Support” section to be higher in the introduction. https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/intro-dits-coga2/guidelines/#user-support-in-wcag-2-1<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fintro-dits-coga2%2Fguidelines%2F%23user-support-in-wcag-2-1&data=02%7C01%7Cmhakkinen%40ets.org%7C24378f98915f428fef1808d59fea4db4%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636590751062493033&sdata=rJ%2B2cXd%2BwT3DYZwZe2uXfziYwwf3u0gwt5qAfXIsX%2Bk%3D&reserved=0>
  *   Reworked the second paragraph to incorporate more of Lisa’s text and included links to as-yet-undefined pages for mobile/coga/low vision.


Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
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From: Michael Gower <michael.gower@ca.ibm.com<mailto:michael.gower@ca.ibm.com>>
Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 14:06
To: Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com<mailto:charles.adams@oracle.com>>
Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>>, "lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>

Subject: RE: wording for the introduction

+1
Michael Gower
IBM Accessibility
Research

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To:        David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>
Cc:        "lisa.seeman" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>, "W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3. Org<mailto:W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3.%20Org>" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Date:        2018-04-11 08:34 AM
Subject:        RE: wording for the introduction
________________________________


+1 ☺



From:David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 9:29 AM
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>
Cc: Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com<mailto:charles.adams@oracle.com>>; lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>; W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3. Org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: wording for the introduction



Here's my suggestion riffing off of Charles amendment to the earlier text that several of us worked up.



Although these guidelines cover many important issues, they cannot address the needs of every individual and every type, degree, and combination of disabilities.  Significant challenges remain in addressingcognitive, language and learning disabilities while ensuring that success criteria are consistently testable and implementable across all web pages in many countries and languages.  Work will continue in this area as technologies mature in the marketplace.  We encourage authors to refer to our supplemental guidance on improving the user experience for people with learning and cognitive disabilities at: w3.org/XXX<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fw3.org-252Fwiki-252FXXX-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Cac6cf538ff7f4f79985408d5695e22ce-257C71f1da39c0a84d5a8d88a67b23c30bf4-257C0-257C0-257C636530775399673763-26sdata-3DGrYZL2lasjnVpdrjIo1f5C-252BFdUGhCrTZ31xWRlcFk1k-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE%26r%3Db-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c%26m%3DudwLMGrHfXokP0t9lzjTNJVTc9M9W2evJ6y9sDmJIyQ%26s%3DQ0wrPvpCnUG8vWGyW7ePUlxtJim_WamYm79e9viGI2g%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Ce0995856ce9d411f4e1608d59fd6ea9a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636590667800500596&sdata=frhV%2BmWPQwpF9oQvWr%2BFHdBooEi0vWMMXb1IF%2BeeO%2B8%3D&reserved=0>

Cheers,
David MacDonald



CanAdaptSolutions Inc.

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  Adapting the web to all users

            Including those with disabilities



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On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:20 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:

Lisa,

Can you share what paragraphs you intend for these paragraphs to replace or add to?



If this is in the abstract, I’m concerned that we need to make sure that the topic is appropriately covered in the main body of the document. That is where the message needs to exist in its complete form as the abstract is a hyper-condensed version of the whole.



Thanks,

AWK



Andrew Kirkpatrick

Group Product Manager, Accessibility

Adobe



akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>

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From: Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com<mailto:charles.adams@oracle.com>> on behalf of Chuck Adams <charles.adams@oracle.com<mailto:charles.adams@oracle.com>>
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 17:07
To: "lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>" <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: wording for the introduction
Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 17:05



Hi Lisa,



I’ve taken a crack at re-wording the last paragraph.  I don’t wish to draw anything out, and I do not object to your wording (I formally agree with your wording).  But if time permits for suggestions and alternatives:



Although these guidelines cover many important issues, they cannot address the needs of every individual and every type, degree, and combination of disabilities.  Significant challenges remain in addressing internationalization, cognitive, language and learning disabilities while ensuring that success criteria are consistently testable and implementable across all web pages.  Work will continue in this area as technologies mature in the marketplace.  We encourage authors to refer to our supplemental guidance on improving the user experience for people with learning and cognitive disabilities at: w3.org/XXX<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fw3.org-252Fwiki-252FXXX-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Cac6cf538ff7f4f79985408d5695e22ce-257C71f1da39c0a84d5a8d88a67b23c30bf4-257C0-257C0-257C636530775399673763-26sdata-3DGrYZL2lasjnVpdrjIo1f5C-252BFdUGhCrTZ31xWRlcFk1k-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE%26r%3Db-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c%26m%3DudwLMGrHfXokP0t9lzjTNJVTc9M9W2evJ6y9sDmJIyQ%26s%3DQ0wrPvpCnUG8vWGyW7ePUlxtJim_WamYm79e9viGI2g%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C913766202ce44eff740d08d59f2703cb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636589912276815437&sdata=k06%2BJX2iAnp0Xhri8DgG8tdGdb3mEeHBUD3yPHA46jc%3D&reserved=0>



Thanks,

Charles Adams



From:lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 11:33 AM
To: W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3. Org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: wording for the introduction



I think this was the wording based on what was close to consensus from the back discussions



Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.1 covers a wide range of implementation recommendations serving a diverse range of people with disabilities. Following these guidelines will make Web content more accessible and results in improved access to an increasingly larger group of people using the web independently.



Disabilities include impairments related to blindness and low vision, deafness and hearing loss, limited movement, photosensitivity, cognitive, language and learning disabilities, and combinations of these. The guidelines also makes Web content more usable for ageing related impairment, short or long-term changing abilities, usage in different circumstances and devices, and often improve usability in general.



Although these guidelines cover many important issues, they do not claim to address the needs of people with all types, degrees, and combinations of disabilities. Particularly, in the areas of cognitive, language and learning disabilities, trying to address issues of consistent  test-ability, implement-ability across all web pages, and internationalisation continue to present a major challenge. Work will continue in this area as technologies mature in the marketplace. We encourage authors to consider our supplemental guidance on improving the user experience for people with learning and cognitive disabilities at: w3.org/XXX<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fw3.org-252Fwiki-252FXXX-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Cac6cf538ff7f4f79985408d5695e22ce-257C71f1da39c0a84d5a8d88a67b23c30bf4-257C0-257C0-257C636530775399673763-26sdata-3DGrYZL2lasjnVpdrjIo1f5C-252BFdUGhCrTZ31xWRlcFk1k-253D-26reserved-3D0%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE%26r%3Db-9TIC95K-nLEKIDibNXAN_FKV-iXhLlAW2Zc3ebV_c%26m%3DudwLMGrHfXokP0t9lzjTNJVTc9M9W2evJ6y9sDmJIyQ%26s%3DQ0wrPvpCnUG8vWGyW7ePUlxtJim_WamYm79e9viGI2g%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C913766202ce44eff740d08d59f2703cb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636589912276815437&sdata=k06%2BJX2iAnp0Xhri8DgG8tdGdb3mEeHBUD3yPHA46jc%3D&reserved=0>





Note that there were issues with this wording but I think this got the most close to agreement  (I made some changes added the italicized terms)







All the best

Lisa Seeman

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