- From: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
- Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 09:51:53 -0600
- To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
- Cc: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, "Repsher, Stephen J" <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKdCpxy-8=_gCH5xYN94xjbjGbvFLudG5yVc6-fyD3tUT7ZL1A@mail.gmail.com>
+1 to the current draft language. JF On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 3:33 AM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello David and all, > > Thank you. I have updated the proposed SC text. > https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13 > > Can anyone not live with the current text? > > Kindest Regards, > > Laura > > On Nov 24, 2017 4:25 PM, "David MacDonald" <david@can-adapt.com> wrote: > > > I agree with the note, and I can live without "essential". I would in > that > > case interpret "content of functionality" to not include minor problems > > that don't interfere with getting the information and using the page ... > > > > > > Cheers, > > David MacDonald > > > > > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Mobile: 613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005> > > > > LinkedIn > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Laura Carlson < > > laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi David and all, > >> > >> As mentioned on issue 576, based on an evaluation of 67 pages [1] > >> tested between July 25 and August 3, 2017 that included top 50 Alexa > >> pages and some smaller pages, the combined metrics specified in the > >> Adapting Text SC should be feasible in WCAG 2.1 for HTML documents. > >> Spacing is able to adapt without loss of content or functionality > >> across a wide range of sites. In addition, recently 9 mega menus [2] > >> were tested and passed the SC. > >> > >> As you know the Working Group will be going through the implementation > >> process and demonstrating the implementability of all the new SCs. If > >> you know of examples in the wild of text in UI - (e.g. menus, etc) > >> where it would not be possible to meet the SC, please add them to > >> issue 576. We can tag that issue with the "Implementation Follow-up" > >> label to ensure that it is re-reviewed at that point in the process. > >> > >> But with that said, David, could you live with the current text that > >> removes the word "essential", if we added an editor's note such as: > >> > >> "Editors Note: The Working Group seeks examples in the wild of text > >> content outside of blocks of text where it would be impossible to meet > >> this SC. The SC's scope may be narrowed based upon implementation > >> testing." > >> > >> For reference the current proposed SC text [3] reads: > >> > >> <quote> > >> Success Criterion 1.4.13 Text Spacing > >> > >> If the technologies being used allow the user agent [4] to set text > >> [5] style properties [6], then no loss of content or functionality > >> occurs by setting all of the following and by changing no other style > >> property: > >> > >> * Line height (line spacing) to at least 1.5 times the font size; > >> * Spacing underneath paragraphs to at least 2 times the font size; > >> * Letter spacing (tracking) to at least 0.12 times the font size; > >> * Word spacing to at least 0.16 times the font size. > >> > >> <end quote> > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> Kindest Regards, > >> Laura > >> > >> [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Results_of_Bookmarklet_Tests_ > >> for_Issue_78 > >> [2]https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/576#issuecomment-345843140 > >> [3] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13#SC_Text > >> [4] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-agent > >> [5] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-text > >> [6] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-style-properties > >> > >> On 11/14/17, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com> wrote: > >> >> My concern is that “nothing important is lost” risks making the SC > not > >> > reliably testable. I would prefer to avoid such language. By doing so, > >> > accessibility is also enhanced. > >> > > >> > I agree that testability is always a concern. However, without a > >> qualifier, > >> > then any minor artifacts in the transition will fail WCAG. If we > remove > >> > essential and don't replace it with another qualifier, then I think it > >> > should be limited to "blocks of text" > >> > https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/576 > >> > > >> > We've had 2 reputable commenters who are veteran full time > accessibility > >> > professionals and testers, ask that this SC get changed to "Blocks of > >> > Text", > >> > Jan Richards of the IDRC <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/551>, > >> and > >> > Aiden > >> > from TD Bank <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/469>. > >> > I'd like to add my voice to that concern. I was the author of SC 1.4.8 > >> in > >> > WCAG 2.0. And the "blocks of text" language was carefully negotiated, > I > >> > never could have got through without that. I think we should carefully > >> > consider "Blocks of Text". Without that, there are a lot of variables, > >> and > >> > possible confusion. It might become a stumbling block for the SC in > CR. > >> > > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > David MacDonald > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > >> > Mobile: 613.806.9005 > >> > > >> > LinkedIn > >> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > >> > > >> > twitter.com/davidmacd > >> > > >> > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > >> > > >> > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > * Adapting the web to all users* > >> > * Including those with disabilities* > >> > > >> > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy > policy > >> > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > >> > > >> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:37 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> My concern is that “nothing important is lost” risks making the SC > not > >> >> reliably testable. I would prefer to avoid such language. By doing > so, > >> >> accessibility is also enhanced. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com] > >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:30 AM > >> >> *To:* Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> > >> >> *Cc:* Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>; White, Jason J < > >> >> jjwhite@ets.org>; Repsher, Stephen J <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>; > >> WCAG > >> >> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> > >> >> *Subject:* Re: Deal with the word "essential" now or tackle it later? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I don't think we want to loose the idea that "some" loss of content > and > >> >> functionality is acceptable as long as nothing important is lost. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Cheers, > >> >> David MacDonald > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > >> >> > >> >> Mobile: 613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005> > >> >> > >> >> LinkedIn > >> >> > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A% > >> 2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02% > >> 7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254% > >> 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837 > >> 116&sdata=Lir2vskakn6MX2frF8w6y4JbAcCu8fxJ9Qwb9Cgb300%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> > >> >> twitter.com/davidmacd > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A% > >> 2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets. > >> org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f > >> 37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=Elps11ImTbC > >> Teuk3mmmINFY5H7ANDzaJTZK9gD1liPA%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> > >> >> GitHub > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite% > >> 40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34 > >> fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=DAmBg > >> c3O%2FNy3QlufeouMu33tedymPTWeOBo%2B1%2BcI6AQ%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> > >> >> www.Can-Adapt.com > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A% > >> 2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets. > >> org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f > >> 37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=KV0lh06nLBD > >> fm1q2sdulGjq6Qe6IbOLEHuOzTuhJ8AA%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> * Adapting the web to all users* > >> >> > >> >> * Including those with disabilities* > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy > policy > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A% > >> 2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01 > >> %7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0b > >> a6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116& > >> sdata=SHmjoeBrQIoI1I3kn%2BLYFG8CFgOhY39ru0q3kw4PL%2BE%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Laura Carlson < > >> >> laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Hi Jason, David, Andrew, Steve, and all, > >> >> > >> >> Regarding the latest proposed adapting text SC text, Jason wrote [1]: > >> >> >> It doesn't eliminate the use of the word "essential", which is not > >> >> >> here > >> >> used in accordance with its WCAG definition. > >> >> > >> >> David wrote [2]: > >> >> > That word is in both proposals so I think we should consider that > >> >> separately... perhaps you can file an issue on github. > >> >> > >> >> It seems we already have an open issue for Use of "essential" for > >> >> several SCs including adapting text. It is #372 [3]. > >> >> > >> >> Andrew, Issue 372 wasn't listed for Adapting Text SC (or any of the > >> >> others) in your November 6 email [4] so I didn't add to the the Wiki > >> >> page with the rest of proposals for resolving Adapting Text issues > >> >> [5]. Should I add it to the Wiki page? Or should we deal with Issue > >> >> 372 later? > >> >> > >> >> On September 25, Steve commented in Issue 372 regarding the use of > the > >> >> word "essential" in the Adapting Text SC. He said [6]: > >> >> > >> >> "The criterion refers to "no loss of essential content or > >> >> functionality". The word seems to have been introduced by @awkawk in > a > >> >> comment way back in March [7], but I could not find any rationale for > >> >> its inclusion in the language (i.e. an example of content loss that > >> >> would be acceptable). Given this, and the fact that both Resize Text > >> >> and Zoom Content refer to "loss of content or functionality" without > >> >> using essential, I propose to simply remove the word from this SC." > >> >> > >> >> Andrew and all, would you be able to live with removing the word > >> >> essential from the SC? > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> Kindest Regards, > >> >> Laura > >> >> > >> >> [1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0 > >> 376.html > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl% > >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0376.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C > >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd > >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=gPwzB5W4eBS3GtUOF > >> n3zkoFkL6xahJJ4%2BmlC%2F%2FVxkAo%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> [2]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDe > >> c/0374.html > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl% > >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0374.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C > >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd > >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=cT0UhrvKsF0t5IUWB > >> k8F6xRpIy%2Fqh9ncj7M3%2BxJrS8s%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> [3] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/372 > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F372&data= > >> 02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c32 > >> 54%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054 > >> 837116&sdata=gagg72um8D90V1Wo59oTQu4pdDddMx > 19x%2Fn0a413tPk%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> [4] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0 > >> 313.html > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl% > >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0313.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C > >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd > >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=XLm%2FxtYIeB3ZqrZ > >> aYDfGxWvBj0okkd2QUBcL3Vu6%2Fo0%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> [5] > >> >> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13 > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >> 3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FComment_Summary_1-4- > >> 13&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e0 > >> 6408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C > >> 636462666054837116&sdata=5uk17yXjWGErchrzKJvhwXLoJYne6GDY5U6 > >> OZ536r2M%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> [6] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/372#issuecomment-331950411 > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F372%23issu > >> ecomment-331950411&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cd > >> f0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > >> 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=JISpZMF9yF9tGJGJd5Xu > >> 8BhDIqu%2BogD01ukBRb%2BxOmE%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> [7] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78#issuecomment-289792275 > >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F78%23issue > >> comment-289792275&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cd > >> f0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > >> 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=sspSef%2BcIJClGUIh2l > >> OnmT4YzSm4IkJeCJ4YaA1RiZI%3D&reserved=0> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Laura L. Carlson > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------ > >> >> > >> >> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged > or > >> >> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for > >> whom > >> >> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this > >> >> e-mail > >> >> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, > distribute, > >> or > >> >> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and > >> >> delete > >> >> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. > >> >> > >> >> Thank you for your compliance. > >> >> ------------------------------ > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Laura L. Carlson > >> > > > > > > -- John Foliot Principal Accessibility Strategist Deque Systems Inc. john.foliot@deque.com Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
Received on Saturday, 25 November 2017 15:52:21 UTC