Re: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with "change"

Hi Steve and all,

Yes. Explaining in in understanding may be simpler. I wonder if the
following SC-speak might be close to what you mean.

"If the technologies being used allow the user agent to set text style
properties, then no loss of essential content or functionality occurs
by setting all of the following and by changing no other style
property."

It is a mouthful. According to the Readability Test Tool [7] . The it
has an average readability grade level of about 17. It should be
easily understood by 22 to 23 year olds. But it may close a loophole.

Thoughts everyone?

Kindest Regards,
Laura

[7] https://www.webpagefx.com/tools/read-able/check.php

On 11/16/17, Repsher, Stephen J <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com> wrote:
> Yep, you're of course right, Laura.  I'm not sure the best way to get this
> point across in SC-speak, or if we even need to make it more wordy and just
> crystalize it in Understanding.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 2:20 PM
> To: Repsher, Stephen J <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>
> Cc: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>; White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>;
> Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; Alastair
> Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> Subject: Re: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with "change"
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Does "without setting any other style property" mean that the bookmarklet
> would need to remove *all* author styles that the author has already set and
> then test the metrics? If so, every page will pass.
>
> Or do you mean don't touch any of your styles that you have already set and
> then test the metrics? If so maybe,  "without *resetting* any other style
> property" would work?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kindest Regards,
> Laura
>
> On 11/16/17, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com> wrote:
>>> "by setting all of the following, without setting any other style
>> property"
>>
>> That would work for me.. it is similar to an earlier recommendation I
>> had made,
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>> Mobile:  613.806.9005
>>
>> LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>
>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
>> policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 11:37 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:
>>
>>> So, would "by setting all of the following, without setting any other
>>> style property" address the concern?
>>>
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Repsher, Stephen J [mailto:stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com]
>>> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:21 PM
>>> > To: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>; Laura Carlson
>>> > <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>; Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> > <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>>> > Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; David MacDonald
>>> > <david@can-adapt.com>; Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>>> > Subject: RE: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with
>>> "change"
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "Setting" seems reasonable to me. Regarding "only", do you mean
>>> > "setting
>>> all of
>>> > the following, without changing other text style properties"?
>>> > [Steve] Yes and no.  I mean without changing **any** other property.
>>> > In
>>> other
>>> > words, the user agent should be able to make those 4 changes alone
>>> without
>>> > loss, and if other changes are required (e.g. container sizing),
>>> > that
>>> defeats the
>>> > purpose of the SC.
>>> >
>>> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > From: Repsher, Stephen J [mailto:stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com]
>>> > > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 11:02 AM
>>> > > To: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>; Laura Carlson
>>> > > <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>; Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> > > <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>>> > > Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; David MacDonald <david@can-
>>> > adapt.com>;
>>> > > Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>>> > > Subject: RE: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with
>>> "change"
>>> > >
>>> > > Alright, how about just using "set" as the verb then...
>>> > >
>>> > > "If the technologies being used allow the user agent to set text
>>> > > style properties, then no loss of essential content or
>>> > > functionality occurs by setting all of the following:"
>>> > >
>>> > > That should fix that problem, but I'm inclined to say we need the
>>> > > word "only" in there somewhere given the discussion even amongst
>>> > > ourselves had to reiterate it.  I had tossed that in there a
>>> > > while back but not sure why it was removed and would have to
>>> > > check the GitHub thread.
>>> > >
>>> > > Steve
>>> > >
>>> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > From: White, Jason J [mailto:jjwhite@ets.org]
>>> > > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:44 AM
>>> > > To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>; Andrew
>>> > > Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>>> > > Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; David MacDonald <david@can-
>>> > adapt.com>;
>>> > > Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>>> > > Subject: RE: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with
>>> "change"
>>> > >
>>> > > I remain concerned that David's proposal doesn't address Andrew's
>>> > > case in which no "change" is necessary, because the content
>>> > > already meets the four requirements listed in the SC. I suppose
>>> > > one could say that there's a trivial null transformation involved
>>> > > (i.e., no change could still be treated as a "change"), which is
>>> > > however counter-intuitive and a very subtle - indeed dubious -
>>> > > interpretation of the text.
>>> > >
>>> > > I'm leaning toward saying, no, I can't live with David's revert.
>>> > >
>>> > > Perhaps "ensuring all of the following" would be better, where
>>> "ensuring"
>>> > > includes either changing or leaving alone if the author has
>>> > > already met the specified thresholds.
>>> > >
>>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > > From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
>>> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:05 AM
>>> > > > To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>>> > > > Cc: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>;
>>> > > > David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>; Alastair Campbell
>>> > > > <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>>> > > > Subject: Re: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt"
>>> > > > with
>>> "change"
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Hi Andrew,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Text at the end of our November 13, 2017 meeting:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > "If the technologies being used allow the user agent to change
>>> > > > text style properties, the following can be achieved with no
>>> > > > loss of essential content or
>>> > > > functionality:
>>> > > > * the 4 things
>>> > > >
>>> > > > David's proposed revert [5]:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > "If the technologies being used allow the user agent to change
>>> > > > text style properties, then no loss of essential content or
>>> > > > functionality occurs by changing all of the following:"
>>> > > > * the 4 things
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Thank you.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Kindest Regards,
>>> > > > Laura
>>> > > >
>>> > > > [5]
>>> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>> > > > 2Flis
>>> > > > ts
>>> > > > .w3.o
>>> > > > rg%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0368.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C700
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > b333d209b412a9c1a08d52d03766a%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > 7C0%7C0%7C636464415244080402&sdata=696nDSdTQHKxkuSw3lWGUqVOSX6
>>> > > > eR8l86ZDq3Vgw47Q%3D&reserved=0
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On 11/16/17, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>>> > > > > Laura,
>>> > > > > I’m sure that the options were clearly laid out somewhere in
>>> > > > > the thread, but I don’t have time to find it. Can you clearly
>>> > > > > lay out “before” and “proposed” options?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Thanks,
>>> > > > > AWK
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> > > > > Group Product Manager, Accessibility Adobe
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > akirkpat@adobe.com
>>> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
>>> > > > > %2Ftw
>>> > > > > it
>>> > > > > te
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > r.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C700b333d209b412
>>> > > > a9c1a
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > 08d52d03766a%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C63646
>>> > > > 4415244
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > 080402&sdata=kszdaxRJsWVstas19rZOJnWmR3UB7bdcevZEcLFajJg%3D&reserv
>>> > > > ed=0
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > On 11/16/17, 09:56, "Laura Carlson"
>>> > > > > <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     Hello everyone,
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     I wrote:
>>> > > > >     > Andrew, Jason, and everyone else, can you live with
>>> reverting the
>>> > > > >     > adapting text language by replacing "adapt" with "change"
>>> > > > > as
>>> David
>>> > > > >     > suggested? [5]
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     Please let me rephrase that.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     After reviewing the video demonstration, draft technique,
>>> > > > > and
>>> test
>>> > > > >     results can anyone not live with reverting the adapting
>>> > > > > text
>>> language
>>> > > > >     by replacing "adapt" with "change" to what David suggested?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     Thank you.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     Best Regards,
>>> > > > >     Laura
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     On 11/15/17, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > > >     > Hello Andrew, Jason, and all,
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > Andrew wrote [1]:
>>> > > > >     >> It would help me to understand exactly what steps you
>>> > > > > envision a user
>>> > > > >     >> would need to
>>> > > > >     >> follow to achieve the following four items, and
>>> > > > > provide an example page
>>> > > > >     >> that shows
>>> > > > >     >> this working as you envision it.
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > Alastair provided a video demonstration of what a
>>> > > > > person would need to
>>> > > > >     > do to test for the four items on the BBC and Adobe
>>> > > > > homepages.[2] Thank
>>> > > > >     > you, Alastair!
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > For that step-by-step process in text, please check our
>>> > > > > draft
>>> > > > >     > technique "Allowing for Spacing Override". [3]
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > For results of the testing that we completed using that
>>> step-by-step
>>> > > > >     > procedure, please check the "Results of Bookmarklet
>>> > > > > Tests
>>> for Issue
>>> > > > >     > 78".[4] Between July 25 and August 3, 2017, 67 pages
>>> > > > > were
>>> tested. If
>>> > > > >     > the spacing parameters supplied by the author already
>>> > > > > meets or exceeds
>>> > > > >     > the SC's specified metrics, the content passes the test
>>> using the
>>> > > > >     > bookmarklet.
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > Does the video demonstration, draft technique, and test
>>> results
>>> > > > >     > provide the clarity needed?
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > Andrew, Jason, and everyone else, can you live with
>>> reverting the
>>> > > > >     > adapting text language by replacing "adapt" with "change"
>>> > > > > as
>>> David
>>> > > > >     > suggested? [5]
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > Thank you.
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > Kindest Regards,
>>> > > > >     > Laura
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > [1]
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>> > > > 2Flis
>>> > > > ts
>>> > > > .w3.o
>>> > > > rg%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0370.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > 464409791358570&sdata=DIMiABzs3Pd1HEAQZI5t%2FQxTAeaXeqyT%2FCwpbB
>>> > > > %2FNnZE%3D&reserved=0
>>> > > > >     > [2]
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>> > > > 2Flis
>>> > > > ts
>>> > > > .w3.o
>>> > > > rg%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0373.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > 464409791358570&sdata=03fGYgLdaQfwsqHHd0EmAIZloK5iSz3E%2B3NWWLN
>>> > > > 3QEY%3D&reserved=0
>>> > > > >     > [3]
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FAllowing_for_Spacing_Override&data=02%7C01
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > %7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > 178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636464409791358570&sdata=NejhMNltxv0VwBtv1jIK
>>> > > > s90MuWL39OtfN21DaTPf3X8%3D&reserved=0
>>> > > > >     > [4]
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FResults_of_Bookmarklet_Tests_for_Issue_78&d
>>> > a
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > ta=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > 438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636464409791358570&sdata=tc9Wjhg3
>>> > > > 1KL11sE1TGIKLkx7ghxQtbgnkWbqS3Clcmg%3D&reserved=0
>>> > > > >     > [5]
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>> > > > 2Flis
>>> > > > ts
>>> > > > .w3.o
>>> > > > rg%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0368.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > 464409791358570&sdata=hNH%2BJRMlEOz9uzbU8JpGlnmg49MxnU8n19Y0JRd
>>> > > > Grp4%3D&reserved=0
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >     > --
>>> > > > >     > Laura L. Carlson
>>> > > > >     >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >     --
>>> > > > >     Laura L. Carlson
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Laura L. Carlson
>>> > >
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>>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged
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>>
>
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>
>


-- 
Laura L. Carlson

Received on Thursday, 16 November 2017 20:16:30 UTC