RE: DPUB Set of Web Pages

I agree.

I certainly wouldn’t recommend a solution that ignores those requirements. As I said, I wish you luck in getting a good solution to enable you to include them. If you succeed I, for one, would push to have this solution incorporated in any future update of EN 301 549!

Best regards

Mike

From: Matt Garrish [mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com]
Sent: 23 November 2016 16:06
To: 'David MacDonald' <david100@sympatico.ca>
Cc: 'WCAG' <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; 'Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL' <ryladog@gmail.com>; 'Wilco Fiers' <w.fiers@accessibility.nl>; 'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken' <tsiegman@wiley.com>; 'George Kerscher' <kerscher@montana.com>; 'Charles LaPierre' <Charlesl@benetech.org>; 'Avneesh Singh' <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: DPUB Set of Web Pages

Yes, this is interesting, but I'm not sure how to respond. As we work to a web publication definition, there are challenges we'll need to address, but I can't see how we could develop a specification that ignores wcag requirements. You absolutely have to have multiple ways to access the pages of a publication, for example. In EPUB, the reading system facilitates seamless navigation from document to document through the spine (metadata about the order). There is also a required table of contents, and publications often have other forms of navigation, like indexes, access to static page break locations, search functionality through the reading system, etc. I'm fully expecting that we won't compromise anywhere, but details of the pitfalls you encountered would be helpful.

Matt

From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
Sent: November 23, 2016 10:52 AM
To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com<mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>
Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>; Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL <ryladog@gmail.com<mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>>; Wilco Fiers <w.fiers@accessibility.nl<mailto:w.fiers@accessibility.nl>>; Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>>; George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com<mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>; Charles LaPierre <Charlesl@benetech.org<mailto:Charlesl@benetech.org>>; Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com<mailto:avneesh.sg@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: DPUB Set of Web Pages

Hi Mike

>was developed the consensus opinion was that applying 2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3 and 3.2.4 to documents using the “set of documents” definition did not capture the key accessibility needs.

Can you explain this further? I was an active member of the WCAG2ICT TF with you on all of those calls for a year.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 10:32 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
Hi Matt

I think including a epub example in a set of web pages wouldn't preclude a more specific definition of epub at a later time, or even in a later version of WCAG ... on the other hand, maybe we could introduce a new term in 2.1 if we have it very soon.

It just seems to me that "a set of web pages" and inherent in that the "web page definition" of the base URL and associated assets, is a perfect short term definition that would accomplish what George mentioned about working epub into the web page framework so that the WCAG Success Criteria can explicitly apply to epub.

Although just the fact that they sit at a URL already allows WCAG Success Criteria to apply to epub, and WCAG2ICT applies when its offline.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com<mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks, David, this is a good start. I'd just suggest that we keep any definition of a web publication agnostic to specific formats.

As Tzviya mentioned on the call, the DPUB group will be taking up the issues from yesterday on their next call, so we'll have more to say about example wording and metadata after we can involve the full group.

Matt

From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>]
Sent: November 22, 2016 3:26 PM
To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>; Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL <ryladog@gmail.com<mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>>; Wilco Fiers <w.fiers@accessibility.nl<mailto:w.fiers@accessibility.nl>>; Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>>; George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com<mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>; markus.gylling@idpf.org<mailto:markus.gylling@idpf.org>; matt.garrish@bell.net<mailto:matt.garrish@bell.net>; Charles LaPierre <Charlesl@benetech.org<mailto:Charlesl@benetech.org>>; Avneesh Saxena <Avneesh.s@gmail.com<mailto:Avneesh.s@gmail.com>>
Subject: DPUB Set of Web Pages

Note: DPUB members, this is my personal opinion, not speaking for WG

Today we discussed ways that we could role a DPUB package into our definition of web page.

DPUB packages have more than one URL, and as such cannot be considered under our current definition as a web page. However, we have a useful definition in WCAG which lends itself ideally to a DPUB document. That is a "Set of Web Pages"

set of Web pages

collection of Web pages<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#webpagedef> that share a common purpose and that are created by the same author, group or organization

Note: Different language versions would be considered different sets of Web pages.
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#set-of-web-pagesdef

We could add something like this to the definition

"Example: An epub publication has a table of contents and 25 separate URLs representing each chapter of a digital book."

If the DPUB team has Success Criteria they would like to propose for WCAG, for DEC 1st, I suggest they submit them using this definition. For instance, if they want ways to link from a TOC to another chapter of the document and back, they could propose something like:

       "Every link from a Table of Contents in a set of web pages has a corresponding link back to the Table of Contents"

Of course this SC  is just off the top of my head but it gives an idea of how this type of SC could be written with this language.

=============
Also we discussed meta data as a means of reporting conformance. WCAG 2 has a discussion of meta data in Appendix C which may be useful.
https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/appendixC.html


Cheers,
David MacDonald



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