Re: Question: testing for non-unique id values SC 4.1.1

SC 4.1.1 is even more important today as compliance helps to ensure
compatibility  and robustness, given it is not always possible to test
all browser / AT combos.
I fully agree with Jonathan that issues are manifested sometimes when
nesting is not valid or tags are not closed or ids are repeated ...
i.e. items covered by 4.1.1.

In previous posts on the topic of SC 4.1.1 (on this list and here at
Deque)  I have stressed the importance of doing a test for 4.1.1
before doing other accessibility testing.

What I asked at the outset and  proposed based on the first few
responses does not weaken the SC or its intent but is done with a hope
to clearly delineate what is within the scope of accessibility testing
on the topic of non-unique id values. Id values repeated in hidden
content not referenced by ARIA may be covered by testing for
functionality or code quality ... not accessibility testing.

I disagree with the assertion, "I think that it is a reasonable
interpretation of 4.1.1 that what matters for HTML is that the source
markup doesn’t have duplicate id attribute values".
>>If I implement content using javascript to create a useful DOM tree, am I using markup?
JS is used to dynamically alter  content  implemented using markup
languages and not  in a vacuum independently IMO.
JS adds / deletes elements or properties / attribute values of content
using markup languages.

I wonder why  change to normative content is needed.  By limiting the
scope of tests to four things, SC 4.1.1 reads fine now.
Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang


On 9/30/16, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
> Ø  It doesn’t seem to be a stretch to count JavaScript created markup or DOM
> manipulation as part of “markup languages”.
>
> I agree. I believe the intent of that clause was to specify which
> technologies were in or out and not to say that DOM manipulation wasn’t
> covered.   I agree some things likely won’t be an issue in situations where
> content is added to the DOM dynamically but the SC would still apply IMO.
>
>
> Ø  If the APIs are the official way to do things, the usefulness of 4.1.1
> has reduced as anything the browsers don’t interpret should be apparent to
> everyone, not just people using AT.
>
> I disagree because the visual rendering engine of the browser is likely
> separate from the DOM to accessibility API bridge and the accessibility API
> is likely to contain issues that aren’t rutinely found by the browser QA
> teams.  Unless the browsers start implementing some sort of accessibility
> test harness and really be looking for them.  The API is also susceptable to
> issues IMO when it’s built/updated based on bad structure.  How does the DOM
> to API bridge handle bad markup and what decisions does it make in order to
> compenstate for incorrect markup/DOM structure?
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
> 703.637.8957 (Office)
>
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> From: Alastair Campbell [mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 4:03 AM
> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Question: testing for non-unique id values SC 4.1.1
>
> Andrew asked:
>>  If I implement content using javascript to create a useful DOM tree, am I
>> using markup?
>
> That’s a good point, and I would hope the answer is yes otherwise there is a
> whole category of websites not covered. (Assuming we want any to be covered
> by 4.1.1, the answer should be yes.)
>
> It doesn’t seem to be a stretch to count JavaScript created markup or DOM
> manipulation as part of “markup languages”.
>
> I think there has been a trend in recent years for AT to use the
> accessibility APIs rather than do their own interpretation. Jaws was the
> obvious one that did its own interpretation but I think it is using the APIs
> now… Can anyone confirm? Are there others that do their own interpretation?
>
> If the APIs are the official way to do things, the usefulness of 4.1.1 has
> reduced as anything the browsers don’t interpret should be apparent to
> everyone, not just people using AT.
>
>
>> Also, what is “markup content”?  :)
>
> You (probably) jest, but “markup” does appear to be an omission from the
> WCAG 2 glossary!
>
> -Alastair
>

Received on Friday, 30 September 2016 14:57:22 UTC