Re: HTML for markup and CSS for presentation: valid?

I believe CSS display:table is purely a presentational  construct. In
order to avoid AT from getting confused / interpreting such content as
a table, it should be assigned a role=presentation. If one wants to
render a data table, then one should use native HTML markup i.e. the
TABLE element.

It is a pity that screen readers do not interpret  elements like INS,
DEL, STRONG, EM. If they did the workaround via CSS suggested by Paul
becomes unnecessary.

As for images / icons rendered by CSS that really convey info like
file type / opens new window link / expanded-collapsed state or
whatever,  the CSS alt method is a way of assigning text alternative
and is workable with At support for certain user groups. But the main
question is: is it alright for CSS being used to render information?
Will it not always be a failure under F3? If yes, the CSS alt method
should be nipped in the bud ... there will be no need for one to lobby
AT makers to support it?
If CSS is permitted to render content, then is it really a grave
problem if HTML is permitted to render presentational info like size,
color, border?
Or does the statement in F3 "The CSS background-image property was
designed for decorative purposes" need to be re-cast?

On the other hand, surely CSS3 speech may be a boon and more AT need
to support it:
http://pauljadam.com/demos/css3speech.html
This will make it author controllable. Rules will be needed to resolve
conflict between author specified settings and user selectable
settings through AT configuration.

Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang


On 10/1/15, Hoffman, Allen <allen.hoffman@hq.dhs.gov> wrote:
> Just a similar question.
> When tables are rendered using .css most screen reader table commands don't
> work.  This means navigation up and down, across, with associated headers
> doesn't work.  How would that apply as pass/fail?
>
>
> Allen Hoffman
> Deputy Executive Director
> The Office of Accessible Systems & Technology
> Department of Homeland Security
> 202-447-0503 (voice)
> allen.hoffman@hq.dhs.gov
>
> DHS Accessibility Helpdesk
> 202-447-0440 (voice)
> 202-447-0582 (fax)
> 202-447-5857 (TTY)
> accessibility@dhs.gov
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 4:24 PM
> To: GLWAI Guidelines WG org; Gregg Vanderheiden
> Cc: paul.adam@deque.com
> Subject: HTML for markup and CSS for presentation: valid?
>
> What's the current thinking on use of CSS to deliver content including
> alt for CSS images? Can this become sufficient if screen reader
> support becomes widespread?
> This will then impact techniques for SC 1.1.1 and 1.3.1 too.
> Also content of C22: Using CSS to control visual presentation of text.
>
> Consider:
> http://pauljadam.com/demos/css-line-through-del-ins-accessibility.html
> http://pauljadam.com/demos/css4altgeneratedcontent.html
> http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2014/notes-on-draft-css-alt-property/
>
> Clearly screen readers exposing CSS tables is problematic:
> http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/201110/using_displaytable_has_semantic_effects_in_some_screen_readers/
>
> It became bad practice to use tags like FONT and   attributes like
> color, border, etc. in HTML markup with the validator flagging
> warnings  . Now we have CSS providing a method for alt text.
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Sailesh Panchang
>
>

Received on Thursday, 1 October 2015 14:38:31 UTC