Re: WCAG Extensions and Rationale (was Legal Settlement Agreements that Reference WCAG)

Thanks Sailesh, I think this helps the discussion.

Cheers,

David MacDonald



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On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Sailesh Panchang <
sailesh.panchang@deque.com> wrote:

> Judy / Laura,
> Dipping into my background as a financial auditor, I believe WAI can
> take a page out of the  methodology adopted for setting accounting
> standards by bodies like IASB and FASB (International / Federal)
> Accounting Standards Boards.
> They develop, seek comments and publish / amend accounting / reporting
> standards using a modular method as and when required.
> If they see the need for a new standard that was not defined in the
> past because of changes in law, technology, business practices, etc.
> they develop and define a new standard covering that area.
> So there are several accounting standard each covering a specific area,
> like:
> Valuation and Presentation of Inventories in the Context of the
> Historical Cost System,
> Unusual and Prior Period Items and Changes in Accounting Policies,
> Depreciation Accounting,
> Accounting for Research and Development Activities,
> Accounting for Construction Contracts,
> Disclosure of Accounting Policies,
> Consolidated Financial Statements,
>
> and so forth.
>
> In the context of WCAG, there can be separate guidelines  each
> covering a particular aspect, say by principle or guideline or even
> an individual SC. Their development and publication will become more
> manageable.
> Just a thought.
> Thanks,
> Sailesh Panchang
>
>
> On 8/3/15, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Judy,
> >
> > Thank you for your insight. It is very much appreciated. And I am
> > sorry for any miscommunication.
> >
> > I agree that the topic of extensions is complex and needs to be
> > informed from many angles. As you explained speed and the broader
> > rethink of guidelines certainly are 2 significant factors.
> >
> > Development of WAI 3.0 is a great idea. The Accessible Online Learning
> > Community Group [1] recently conducted a survey. One of the questions
> > asked was what extent current W3C Accessibility standards support the
> > creation and evaluation of accessible online learning. To quote David
> > Sloan's summary [2] of the results for that question:
> >
> > <quote>
> > * WCAG is widely recognised as having a very positive impact in
> > supporting accessible online learning. WAI-ARIA (Accessible Rich
> > Internet Applications) is also positively rated, but the impact of
> > ATAG and UAAG is less confidently expressed.
> >
> > * WCAG strongly appears to be the most well-known. Several of the
> > supporting comments make reference to its legal significance.
> >
> > * Several comments indicated a limited, or lack of, awareness of the
> > other sets of W3C guidelines/specifications, which indicates a less
> > clear picture of W3C WAI’s components of accessibility (to ensure
> > accessible content, we also need accessible content creation tools and
> > browsing technology, including assistive technology, that can
> > effectively present this content).
> > </unquote>
> >
> > A unified WAI 3.0 incorporating all WAI areas could help raise
> > awareness, harmonization, and uptake.
> >
> > I am please to hear EOWG will be updating documentation on laws around
> > the world that reference WCAG 2.0.
> >
> > With regard to the Wiki page, the Working Group doesn't meet for
> > another week (most folks are on vacation), but I will coordinate with
> > Josh, Andrew, Michael, and the rest of the group then.
> >
> > Kindest Regards,
> > Laura
> >
> > [1] https://www.w3.org/community/accesslearn/
> > [2]
> >
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-accesslearn/2015Jul/0006.html
> > On 8/2/15, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org> wrote:
> >> Hi Laura,
> >>
> >> On 8/1/2015 8:55 AM, Laura Carlson wrote:
> >>> Hi Judy and all,
> >>>
> >>> On 7/30/15, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org> wrote:
> >>>> As for legal settlement agreements referencing WCAG, that's not in the
> >>>> scope of the WCAG WG either. There is a policy references page
> >>>> (currently being updated) that EOWG maintains in support of harmonized
> >>>> standards uptake; a listing of agreements might perhaps be
> peripherally
> >>>> related to that, but we would need to confirm with EOWG before moving
> >>>> it
> >>>> there and they may also feel that it is out of scope.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please let me know if you have questions.
> >>> It is great to hear from you. I do have some questions.
> >>>
> >>> But first let me say that I am very sorry that you feel the Legal
> >>> Settlement Agreements that Reference WCAG 2.0 Wiki page [1] is
> >>> irrelevant to the WCAG WG. I originally created it to help inform WCAG
> >>> WG discourse and had thought that the document may have not only fit
> >>> into the draft charter's [2] statement, "Develop support materials as
> >>> needed to explain the application of WCAG 2.0 to particular
> >>> situations" but moreover be useful for the discussion on the topic of
> >>> WCAG extensions. The legal situation seems to be an underlying
> >>> rationale for the WCAG WG taking the extension route.
> >>
> >> I had not said that it was irrelevant. If you look at the context from
> >> my previous sentence (truncated in your reply to me), it was that this
> >> is not within the scope of the WCAG WG's charter. The WCAG WG group is
> >> currently operating under its existing charter. The draft charter that
> >> you mentioned is not yet in effect, and it is currently unclear whether
> >> the phrase you mention will be in the new charter when it does go into
> >> effect.
> >>
> >> The question of how to handle extensions is complex and will need to be
> >> informed from many angles.
> >>
> >> If the WG does get scoped by a new charter to
> >> more explicitly consider questions around how its work may be written in
> >> order to facilitate it being taken up in different situations, including
> >> policy settings, then the group would need to look at relevant
> >> international information, not only info from the U.S.
> >>
> >>> Although the legal situation is not explicitly called out in the draft
> >>> charter, it seems to be a reality.  In the "WCAG extension" thread
> >>> Sailesh [3] talked about how "WCAG 2 is a guideline or standard if you
> >>> will, and is "often incorporated  / referenced into law and that
> >>> changing WCAG2 by an extension may require changes to such laws too.
> >>> Wayne mentioned how using extensions would give time for legal changes
> >>> [4]. WCAG 2.0 is being or has been incorporated into law in various
> >>> places around the world (for example [5]). The wiki page in fact was
> >>> an attempt to inform this discussion by documenting how legal
> >>> settlements are indeed referencing WCAG 2.0. The page includes:
> >>>
> >>> * 16 City, County, Village Settlements
> >>> * 10 Commercial Settlements
> >>> * 12 Educational Settlements
> >>> * 2 Other Organization Settlements
> >>>
> >>> 22 of those were in the past 6 months. WCAG 2.0 sure seems to have
> >>> increasing legal implications. The page presents 40 US legal
> >>> agreements that I am currently aware of. An attorney who has a
> >>> practice specializing in accessibility contacted me after reading the
> >>> document to say she knows of more settlements than what is currently
> >>> listed.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, a repercussion of this legal situation and because of WCAG
> >>> 2.0's stability and consensus, it appears that the working group can't
> >>> tweak core WCAG 2.0 without risk. It also seems that this is
> >>> underlying rationale leading to the proposed approach of WCAG 2.0 +
> >>> extensions as opposed to a WCAG 2.1 or a WCAG 3.0 approach. Judy, is
> >>> this correct? If this is off base, what is the main rationale for WCAG
> >>> taking the extensions route? Modularity? Speed? Something else? Can
> >>> you please address the questions of "Why not update WCAG?" and "Why
> >>> extensions?" Intelligent people have been asking. I am in good faith
> >>> trying to understand and piece things together. Your insight would be
> >>> most appreciated.
> >>
> >> There are many factors to take into account and many perspectives on how
> >> those fit together so as to move forward on updated Web accessibility
> >> guidelines. Here are quick thoughts on some of the things that an
> >> approach of developing WCAG 2.0 normative extensions, followed by
> >> development of WAI 3.0 (not WCAG 3.0), could help with:
> >> - Any individual area of updated guidance in the form of a normative
> >> extension on WCAG 2.0 would likely take significant time to reach
> >> consensus, yet trying to accomplish that as normative changes on WCAG
> >> 2.0 itself (a "WCAG 2.1") could take even longer. Focusing on a goal of
> >> normative extensions might allow more progress sooner for specific areas
> >> on which consensus can be reached.
> >> - Even with the amount of forward-compatibility that the WCAG WG worked
> >> hard to design into WCAG 2.0, when we consider the pace of technology
> >> change, there will be a need for a deeper rethinking and restructuring
> >> of accessibility guidance to address future technology evolution. After
> >> finishing ATAG 2.0 (currently a Proposed Recommendation) and UAAG 2.0
> >> (which will likely become a WG Note), we need to look at combined needs
> >> across all three areas, but beyond the scope of just a WCAG 2.1.  If
> >> WCAG WG were to take on development of a revised WCAG 2.1 rather than
> >> WCAG 2.0 extensions, we would likely lose ground on starting that
> >> broader re-think.
> >>
> >>> With all of that said, if you still deem the WCAG 2.0 legal settlement
> >>> documentation irrelevant and not useful to the WCAG WG,
> >> Again I believe you misread my comment.
> >>> please accept
> >>> my sincere apologies and have it removed from the WCAG Wiki (I don't
> >>> think I have the permissions to do it myself). If the EO Working Group
> >>> or anyone else finds it useful, they are more than welcome to it. For
> >>> anyone wanting a stable version of the document, the original is
> >>> available [6].
> >>
> >> Thanks. It can be helpful to coordinate with the WCAG WG Co-Chairs
> >> (Andrew and Josh) and Team Contact (Michael) as they may sometimes have
> >> related info or plans.
> >>
> >>> Does EO have documentation for which laws around the world reference
> >>> WCAG 2.0? That may also help inform our discussion on extensions.
> >>
> >> Yes EOWG does have documentation on this; it has been out of date but
> >> they have been starting to update it, and my understanding is that they
> >> may have some help coming online for that. My initial thought about  the
> >> page you're developing was that it might be more related to that. A
> >> strong resource referencing international take-up of WCAG 2.0 (not only
> >> in policies, but in other settings as well) could be a helpful component
> >> of increased progress on accessibility. But right now the charters are
> >> still in flux.
> >> - Judy
> >>
> >>> Thank you.
> >>>
> >>> Kindest Regards,
> >>> Laura
> >>> [1]
> >>>
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Legal_Settlement_Agreements_that_Reference_WCAG
> >>> [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/04/draft-wcag-charter
> >>> [3]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0108.html
> >>> [4]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0104.html
> >>> [5] "KHS: Makoto Ueki wants to rejoin the working group, and he felt
> >>> there would be great interest and attendance for a meeting in Japan
> >>> because of the new laws going into effect in Japan based on WCAG2...I
> >>> would like to see most items fall at levels A and AA, since most laws
> >>> only take those levels."
> >>> http://www.w3.org/2015/04/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html
> >>> [6] http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/settlements/
> >>>
> >>> On 7/30/15, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org> wrote:
> >>>> As for legal settlement agreements referencing WCAG, that's not in the
> >>>> scope of the WCAG WG either. There is a policy references page
> >>>> (currently being updated) that EOWG maintains in support of harmonized
> >>>> standards uptake; a listing of agreements might perhaps be
> peripherally
> >>>> related to that, but we would need to confirm with EOWG before moving
> >>>> it
> >>>> there and they may also feel that it is out of scope.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please let me know if you have questions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you,
> >>>>
> >>>> - Judy
> >>>>>> On 7/30/15, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi Jon,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My pleasure.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't have the dates at hand but  I'll put it on my to do list.
> >>>>>>> Most
> >>>>>>> are fairly recent.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Kindest Regards,
> >>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 7/30/15, Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Laura,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you for setting up this resource.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Could you possibly add the dates of the settlements?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you again,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jon
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 1:38 PM
> >>>>>>>> To: GLWAI Guidelines WG org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: New Wiki Page: Legal Settlement Agreements that Reference
> >>>>>>>> WCAG
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I put up a new Wiki page: Legal Settlement Agreements that
> >>>>>>>> Reference
> >>>>>>>> WCAG.
> >>>>>>>> It is at:
> >>>>>>>>
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Legal_Settlement_Agreements_that_Reference_WCAG
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If you have additions, please let me know or edit at will.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Kindest Regards,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>> --
> >>>> Judy Brewer
> >>>> Director, Web Accessibility Initiative
> >>>> at the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
> >>>> 32 Vassar St. Room G-526, MIT/CSAIL
> >>>> Cambridge MA 02149 USA
> >>>> www.w3.org/WAI/
> >>
> >> --
> >> Judy Brewer
> >> Director, Web Accessibility Initiative
> >> at the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
> >> 32 Vassar St. Room G-526, MIT/CSAIL
> >> Cambridge MA 02149 USA
> >> www.w3.org/WAI/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Laura L. Carlson
> >
> >
>
>
>