Re: Competed action 305

Hi Shadi

There were several opinions on the call about the best way to render Math.
Kathy said images are the way to go currently and has found trouble with
MathJax. On the other hand I'm a big proponent of MathML but it needs lots
of caveats.
As I prepare with CB of Deque and Sina Bahram for our math presentation at
CSUN we have been doing a lot of testing, and Math truly is the wild west
currently. I was also involved in much Math testing with a major US
education provider from K to 12.

JAWS16 can render MathML IF MathJax is on the page. But it is far from
perfect.
VoiceOver is glitchy with MathML. Some of it is OK much of it is not.
NVDA has a module built for an API that exists, but is not publicly
available, so it's not ready
MathJax is pretty good with screen readers but has many problems, even
though its the best situation.
There is much work being done on another solution, but it is not public.

Anyway, I think we need to advise people about the state of things, its not
just MathML and everything is good. If just mathML is used on the page
without mathjax, the only solution that will work is MathPlayer in IE8 or
in IE 11 Enterprise mode which is an IE 8 rendering of the page. So yes...
let's advise them to use MathML but there are many problems and caveats
that are outside the scope of this tutorial... but the tutorial is talking
to Math producers, and telling them to use MathML under the auspices of the
W3C telling them how to meet WCAG. The solution proposed does not meet
WCAG.

The current document says

"If math forms are a substantial part of the page or website content (for
example, online maths courses), MathML <http://www.w3.org/Math/> should be
used instead. MathML represents both presentation and content semantically,
making it more accessible to a wider range of users. Many assistive
technologies can interpret the code."

This SHOULD be true but its not really. Only ONE screen reader can work
with MathML, and only ONE version of that, AND the page has to have MathJax
and be used in IE. that's a pretty narrow field...
I wouldn't say "Many assistive ..." We can't leave universities thinking
all is well cause they put up MathML without Mathjax.

The working group gave me the action item to write a note, and that is what
I provided in the issue list. I'm open to editing suggestions... or more
discussions

Cheers,

David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*

Tel:  613.235.4902

LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>

www.Can-Adapt.com



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On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Shadi Abou-Zahra <shadi@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Thank you for this suggested edit.
>
> I've looked back at the WCAG WG minutes for 27 January but do not see the
> motivation for adding such a "disclaimer" recorded in the minutes.
>
> Also, I don't fully understand the point(s) that we are trying to get
> across in this disclaimer. I note that the action has been closed but I'm
> not sure what the WCAG WG process is for discussing such proposed edits.
> Could you elaborate on the key points and motivation that were agreed on by
> WCAG WG?
>
> I'm pasting your suggested edits here to make it easier for people to find
> and provide any comments that they may have:
>
> [[
> During the year prior to this writing, accessible Math activity has
> increased substantially. In particular, screen reader support has improved
> for MathML. We expect this progress to continue. This area of web
> accessibility is in a particularly transitional period. Organizations that
> have math as an integral part of their information on the web should
> continue to stay up to date on MathML solutions and support in screen
> readers, and choose their presentation of math accordingly.
> ]]
>
> Best,
>   Shadi
>
>
>
> On 3.2.2015 19:30, Joshue O Connor wrote:
>
>> David MacDonald wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/305
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, I've closed the action.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> David MacDonald
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>>
>>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>>
>>> LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>>
>>> www.Can-Adapt.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>>
>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/
> Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office
> Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG)
> Research and Development Working Group (RDWG)
>
>