- From: Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>
- Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:53:33 +0100
- To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- CC: Michael Gower <michael.gower@ca.ibm.com>, Eric Eggert <ee@w3.org>, "w3c-wai-gl@w3.org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Steve Faulkner wrote: [...] > A related question is: is it worth calling out leet speak? I had to go and > look it up, I can't recall seeing it used, but I do live under a rock. I don't know much about, nor have I ever come across leet in the wild - but I also am a rock dweller. IMO It may simplify the example without the leet reference. Josh > > Regards > > SteveF > HTML 5.1<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> > > On 28 April 2015 at 15:18, Michael Gower<michael.gower@ca.ibm.com> wrote: > >> As a new member of this group, I guess I'll take the opportunity to enter >> the fray on this. >> >> "”what’s wrong with the abbr example?” >> Example three in H86<http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H86.html> is<abbr >> title="Austin Rocks">Au5t1N r0xx0rz</abbr> >> The second part of the Leet looks to me like Rocksers -- kind of a mashup >> of rockers and scissors. I believe the originally point may have been that >> the English equivalent is not actually "Rocks" (that, or the Leet should be >> r0(k5 ) >> >> At any rate, the discussion has now moved to whether ABBR is suitable to >> use for surfacing ALT. I agree it is a hack. The Leet is not an >> abbreviation. By the same token, the second item in example 1 should also >> be removed:<abbr title="fright">=8-0</abbr> >> >> However, I'm with Eric on two points: 1) the fact screen readers don't >> implement something by default is not a reason to not implement the >> technique if it is legitimate; 2) other folks, including those with >> cognitive disabilities, can derive benefit from forms of alternative >> information which are not historically available via the user agent alone. >> >> In this situation, the ABBR technique is attractive because it is visually >> indicated by most user agents (as a minutely dashed underline) and provides >> an affordance via hover to expose the TITLE information to mouse users. So >> I think what is called for is for this matter to be flagged to the >> Cognitive TF so they can deal with the multiple questions involved. >> >> Personally, I think using the TITLE as a reinforcement on most uses of ALT >> makes a lot of sense. TITLE is valid on virtually all elements, so can be >> added wherever ALT is used to expose the additional meaning to mouse users. >> My one caution is that I've found that some screen readers will announce >> both the ALT and TITLE if the strings are not identical. So that would need >> to be part of the guidance offered. >> >> That doesn't solve the lack of strong visual affordance for the TITLE or >> the problem with keyboard users not being able to expose the value. But as >> Eric states, "While there may be a user group that isn’t helped using a >> technique, we shouldn’t rule it out for other user groups." >> >> If I've failed to follow any etiquette of the maillist, please feel free >> to advise me privately. >> >> Michael Gower >> Senior Consultant >> IBM Accessibility >> >> 1803 Douglas Street, Victoria, BC V8T 5C3 >> gowerm@ca.ibm.com >> voice: (250) 220-1146 * cel: (250) 661-0098 * fax: (250) 220-8034 >> >> >> >> From: "Eric Eggert"<ee@w3.org> >> To: "Andrew Kirkpatrick"<akirkpat@adobe.com> >> Cc: "David MacDonald"<david100@sympatico.ca>, "Steve Faulkner"< >> faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, "w3c-wai-gl@w3.org"<w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> >> Date: 04/28/2015 05:52 AM >> Subject: Re: H86: Providing text alternatives for ASCII art, >> emoticons, and leetspeak >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> On 28 Apr 2015, at 14:22, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote: >> >>> My question to Steve that he may have missed was ”what’s wrong >>> with the abbr example?” but David you seem to be raising an argument >>> for not using abbr, which would suggest also removing H28 >>> (http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20150226/H28). >> Just a quick thought mainly for the H28 discussion (I am not an ASCII >> art connoisseur and don’t know exactly about leetspeak): >> >> I think this is more a screen reader bug and I would consider adding the >> information there is better practice than leaving it out completely, >> even if the user needs to activate the feature in assistive >> technologies. >> >> Also this has implication for people with cognitive disabilities, for >> example, that can’t get to descriptions. While there may be a user >> group that isn’t helped using a technique, we shouldn’t rule it out >> for other user groups. It might also be provided to screen reader users >> by default in the future. >> >> Cheers, >> Eric >> >>> Any additional information is appreciated! >>> Thanks, >>> AWK >>> >>> From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca >> <david100@sympatico.ca>] >>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 6:29 PM >>> To: Steve Faulkner >>> Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org >>> Subject: Re: H86: Providing text alternatives for ASCII art, >>> emoticons, and leetspeak >>> >>> Agree that we could drop the abbr. It's kind of a hack, and JAWS has >>> abbr support turned off by default, so the abbr may not even speak. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> David MacDonald >>> >>> >>> >>> CanAdapt Solutions Inc. >>> >>> Tel: 613.235.4902 >>> >>> LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> >>> >>> www.Can-Adapt.com<http://www.Can-Adapt.com<http://www.can-adapt.com/>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Adapting the web to all users >>> Including those with disabilities >>> >>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy >>> policy<http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Steve Faulkner >>> <faulkner.steve@gmail.com<mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com >> <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>>> wrote: >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H86.html >>> >>> suggest adding ARIA-fied example (from html5 spec) >>> >>> <figure role="img" aria-labelledby="fish-caption" >>> <pre> >>> o .'`/ >>> ' / ( >>> O .-'` ` `'-._ .') >>> _/ (o) '. .' / >>> ) )))>< < >>> `\ |_\ _.' '. \ >>> '-._ _ .-' '.) >>> jgs `\__\ >>> </pre> >>> <figcaption id="fish-caption"> >>> <cite>Joan G. Stark, "fish"</cite>. >>> October 1997. ASCII on electrons. 28×8. >>> </figcaption> >>> </figure> >>> >>> Also question the use of<abbr> in this technique: >>> <abbr title="Austin Rocks">Au5t1N r0xx0rz</abbr> >>> -- >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> SteveF >>> HTML 5.1<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Eric Eggert >> Web Accessibility Specialist >> Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) at Wold Wide Web Consortium (W3C) >> >> >> >> >> >
Received on Tuesday, 28 April 2015 14:54:16 UTC