- From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 22:24:26 +0200
- To: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>, Kirsten MacDonald <kirsten@can-adapt.com>
- CC: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP233B5B0CA1EAA31C152B6D9FEFA0@phx.gbl>
Thanks Jonathan I'll add these when I return to Canada. Cheers, David MacDonald *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* Tel: 613.235.4902 LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> www.Can-Adapt.com * Adapting the web to all users* * Including those with disabilities* If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote: > David, thank you for putting together this test set. I have some > important additions to share – I apologize for getting to this late. > Initially I was thinking about this from a low vision perspective and not a > screen reader perspective – so the items below are tested without AT but > with accessibility features in the platform and browser. > > > Additional tests with David's test set: Firefox 35 - Windows high > contrast started before FF loads > > CSS Background Images disappear > > CSS Content images remain. > Firefox 35 - Allow pages to choose their own colors > > CSS Background Images disappear > > CSS Content images remain. > IE 11 - Ignore Colors on web pages > > CSS Background Images disappear > > CSS Content images remain. > > > IE 11 - Show Images Off; Expand Alt text for Images ON > > CSS Background Images remain > > CSS Content images remain. > > > New Test: > > <img src="meaningfulimage.jpg" alt="Meaningful image" /> > > <img src="meaningfulimage.jpg" aria-label="Meaningful image" /> > > > IE 11 - Show Images Off; Expand Alt text for Images ON > > Alt text displayed > > aria-label not displayed > > > Firefox 35 - Permission Default Image 2 (turn off images) > > Alt text displayed > > aria-label not displayed > > > IE 11 and Firefox 35 – broken image (incorrect url) > > Alt text displayed > > aria-label not displayed > > > > Jonathan > > > > -- > Jonathan Avila > Chief Accessibility Officer > SSB BART Group > jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com > > > > 703-637-8957 (o) > Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#%21/ssbbartgroup> | Twitter > <http://twitter.com/#%21/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog > <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/O5DP> > > > > *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca] > *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2015 4:53 PM > *To:* James Nurthen; Andrew Kirkpatrick > > *Cc:* WCAG > *Subject:* Re: Discussion of alt for CSS images > > > > As per my action items, here are testing results for CSS background and > CSS inline images. > > http://davidmacd.com/blog/css-background-images.html > > > Cheers, > > David MacDonald > > > > *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > www.Can-Adapt.com > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 12:19 PM, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com> > wrote: > > not Jonathan but I think we are talking about things like > > #myid:before > { > content:url('http://www.w3.org/2008/site/images/logo-w3c-screen-lg'); > } > > Regards, > James > > > > On 3/27/2015 9:01 AM, David MacDonald wrote: > > Hi Jonathan > > I'm just throwing up some examples now... When you speak of "inline CSS > images", are you speaking about a regular <img ...> tag which is positioned > with CSS, or a CSS background image which has been positioned inline using > CSS? > > > Cheers, > > David MacDonald > > > > *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > www.Can-Adapt.com > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Jonathan Avila < > jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote: > > Ø Yes that is what I was referring to. I think this is a problem > especially for low vision users - perhaps we have done a disservice to > those users in this instance..... > > I would agree. So to be clear, we are talking about two issues that > impact users with low vision. > > > > 1. Use of CSS background images that convey meaning but have > programmatic names via properties such as aria-label > > 2. Use of inline CSS images that convey meaning and have programmatic > names via properties such as aria-label. > > > > While these two issues may sounds the same – CSS images are supposed to be > presentational and those background images are rightly removed in high > contrast mode and when color are often turned off by the browser to improve > reading contrast for users with low vision. Inline images are considered > non-presentational and thus are still displayed in these modes. > > > > So, IMO the CSS background issue is a more egregious issue while the > aria-label on inline images is lesser because at least the inline image is > visually available. > > > > Without any requirement for the user agent to display accessibility names > for inline images it is problematic and raises accessibility support issues. > > > > Use of presentation images with only programmatic indicators seems to meet > like a failure – but WCAG doesn’t seem to address this under 1.1.1 or > 1.3.1. Seems like an oversight. For example, WCAG WG thought wisely in SC > 1.4.1 to require a visual indicator of color in addition to a programmatic > one – but this didn’t carry over to CSS background images as 1.1.1 and > 1.3.1 only require programmatic indicators and not visual. I think the > assumption is that everyone can interpret visual information or else they > will be using assistive technology or a browser that has some accessibility > feature that compensates. While that is generally true – background images > seem like a safe thing to remove as they are only for background purpose. > The problem is that people are using CSS background images to convey > meaning because use of inline images have performance challenges. > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > Jonathan > > -- > Jonathan Avila > Chief Accessibility Officer > SSB BART Group > jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com > > Phone 703.637.8957 > Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#%21/ssbbartgroup> | Twitter > <http://twitter.com/#%21/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog > <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/O5DP> > > > > *From:* Katie Haritos-Shea [mailto:ryladog@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:45 PM > *To:* David MacDonald > *Cc:* WCAG > *Subject:* Re: Discussion of alt for CSS images > > > > David, > > Yes that is what I was referring to. I think this is a problem especially > for low vision users - perhaps we have done a disservice to those users in > this instance..... > > * katie * > > Katie Haritos-Shea @ GMAIL > > On Mar 25, 2015 4:05 PM, "David MacDonald" <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > Hi Katie > > Do you mean if for example if someone has images turned off, or if a file > reference was wrong, the alt would appear in the space where the image is, > but the aria-label won't? > > If so, I've heard a few discussions of that on the HTML5 group. I think > most would say that it is not a cross browser behaviour, and that some > browsers show the alt, and others don't show the alt, and that browsers > could show the aria-label if they wanted to. > > The precedence which was set when we removed the requirement for alt on > images if there is another means of reporting ACCNAME to the API, (which I > was not particularly in favour of), sets a precedent that this behaviour of > populating the empty image space with a visible alt, is not considered > necessary for conformance by our Committee, and therefore not necessary for > conformance here. > > > Cheers, > > David MacDonald > > > > *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > www.Can-Adapt.com > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL < > ryladog@gmail.com> wrote: > > David, > > > > The other issue was what is visually apparent to users who do not use AT > (concerning CSS images), but are not getting the images. There is not alt > text. Any ideas on that issue? > > > > > > > > ** katie ** > > > > *Katie Haritos-Shea* > *Senior Accessibility SME (WCAG/Section 508/ADA/AODA)* > > > > *Cell: 703-371-5545 <703-371-5545> **|* *ryladog@gmail.com* > <ryladog@gmail.com> *|* *Oakton, VA **|* *LinkedIn Profile* > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/katieharitosshea/>*|* *Office: 703-371-5545 > <703-371-5545>* > > > > *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca] > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2015 12:34 PM > *To:* WCAG > *Subject:* Discussion of alt for CSS images > > > > Reading through the minutes I see there was a discussion about CSS in > images... it appears one concern is that it is not announced to screen > readers as an image. Although I generally discourage the use or CSS images, > if someone has to do them I suggest using role="image" > > <div role="image" class="myPicture" aria-label="My dog fluffy looking > happy"> > > This should announce to a screen reader that it is an image and the > alternate text... > > > Cheers, > > David MacDonald > > > > *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > www.Can-Adapt.com > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Marc Johlic <johlic@us.ibm.com> wrote: > > Minutes for the March 24, 2015 meeting: > http://www.w3.org/2015/03/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html > > > > Thanks, > Marc > > > Marc Johlic | Accessibility Consultant - Web, Mobile, & Multimedia | IBM > *Accessibility* | IBM Research > > > > > From: Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie> > To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> > Date: 03/20/2015 09:30 AM > Subject: WCAG Agenda March 24 2015 > ------------------------------ > > > > > The WCAG WG will be meeting on Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 11AM Eastern US > > (Length: up to 90 minutes) > > Bridge: +1.617.761.6200 (US) Passcode: 9224# > > IRC: irc.w3.org<http://irc.w3.org> port: 6665 channel #wai-wcag > > Scribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List > > Survey/Agenda > > 1) WCAG F2F @ TPAC Sapporo, and comment responses etc > New survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/ > > 2) Techniques work > > 3) Charter update > > 4) Reminder about outstanding actions > > -- > Joshue O Connor/Andrew Kirkpatrick > WCAG working group co-chairs > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, James > > [image: Oracle] <http://www.oracle.com> > James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility > Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 987 1918 > <+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com > Oracle Corporate Architecture > 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood Cty, CA 94065 > [image: Green Oracle] <http://www.oracle.com/commitment>Oracle is > committed to developing practices and products that help protect the > environment > > >
Attachments
- image/gif attachment: image001.gif
- image/gif attachment: image002.gif
Received on Friday, 10 April 2015 20:26:48 UTC