Re: figcaption NOT an replacement for alt in HTML5

thanks much David

this is VERY helpful.

QUESTION:    When would ALT text not be available at time of publication -- but the figure caption would?   
I don't see any reason that one couldn’t put  the basic information in the ALT such as  "Figure described in caption below"  so that a blind screen reader  a) knows that there is a figure and b) knows that the description is in the caption - if the caption is sufficient.   

Of course I see a danger that all figures might suddenly have this text show up in them....   But if captions are EVER accepted automatically as replacing ALT text -- this would be the effect anyway.   ALT text would disappear since any checker would pass each picture that had a caption -- no matter how weak it was.  (e.g. "Chart showing the critical required elements in your application"). 

I just don't see any reason to accept a caption instead of ALT.    If the captions is so good - then the ALT text can point to it  ( ALT="Figure described well in caption").    OR   ARIA can of course be used when it is supported by AT. 


Other's thoughts?    Am I missing something? 


Gregg
--------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Director Trace R&D Center
Professor Industrial & Systems Engineering
and Biomedical Engineering University of Wisconsin-Madison
Technical Director - Cloud4all Project - http://Cloud4all.info
Co-Director, Raising the Floor - International - http://Raisingthefloor.org
and the Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure Project -  http://GPII.net

On Jan 16, 2014, at 10:27 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Steve Faulkner and I had a good discussion about figure/figcaption elements
> during the html5 call today. There are a few important things that may help
> bring clarity to the discussion. The HTML 5 spec only has one specific use
> case when the figcaption could replace alt text. And that is when the alt
> text is not available at the time of publication. It includes two important
> notes.
> 
> =======
> Note: Such cases are to be kept to an absolute minimum. If there is *even
> the slightest possibility* of the author having the ability to provide real
> alternative text, then *it would not be acceptable to omit the alt
> attribute* 
> 
> Note: Since some users cannot use images at all (e.g. because they are
> blind) the alt attribute is only allowed to be omitted when no text
> alternative is available and none can be made available, as in the above
> examples. " http://tinyurl.com/ox8uhys 
> =====
> 
> I must confess that I was among those who thought HTML5 said the
> <figcaption> element was freely interchangeable with the ALT inside a
> <figure> element, even though the limitation is spelled out in the document
> in two places. 
> 
> HTML5 provides no basis for a WCAG Sufficient technique on this. I think
> this will also help inform the greater discussion around F65. Because I
> believe most of us thought that there already was an alternative to ALT text
> allowed in HTML 5 which set a precedent. Any discussion we have about
> allowing substitutes for ALT, (aria-labelledby, aria-label ...) will have to
> stand on their own merits without a precedent in HTML 5.
> 
> Testing of figcaption with assistive technology is here
> http://davidmacd.com/test/figure.html 
> 
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
> 
> CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
> Tel:  613.235.4902
> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100
> www.Can-Adapt.com
>    
>   Adapting the web to all users
>             Including those with disabilities
> 
> 
>