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RE: WCAG-ISSUE-23 (DavidMacD): We should consider a new "Failure to provide role=presentation on a layout table"

From: Hoffman, Allen <allen.hoffman@hq.dhs.gov>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 17:00:12 +0000
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
CC: CAE-Vanderhe <gregg@raisingthefloor.org>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, GLWAI Guidelines WG org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <F2EC405EEF0B414E8B1415742F1C8BEC476AFC98@D2ASEPREA004>
Steve writes:
It is not a failure because certain AT products support or not support something. Use table markup for layout is a misuse of HTML semantics as table markup is for tabular data. That's how it is defined in HTML now and has always been (AFAIK)
HTML Table element semantics are unambiguously conveyed via accessibility APIs as data table semantics. <td> is short for 'table data cell'.

OK, I get it.

Does this mean it would fail as valid code?

If so it would fail one of those SC(s) more clearly than 1.3.1 in my thinking.

Just to me this seems like a low priority issue overall in the scheme of things.  I’m all for granular and consistent technical guidance, but we’re getting in to intent of HTML spec quite a way here.  I still say from an end-user perspective that even well coded .css tables don’t navigate as easily as those using tables do in all the screen readers I use.  Probably doesn’t matter much for layout tables—although cell by cell navigation of layout tables is handy on occasion as well, especially when information in columns aligns sufficiently for quick navigation.






From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 12:53 PM
To: Hoffman, Allen
Cc: CAE-Vanderhe; Alastair Campbell; GLWAI Guidelines WG org
Subject: Re: WCAG-ISSUE-23 (DavidMacD): We should consider a new "Failure to provide role=presentation on a layout table"


On 2 June 2014 17:41, Hoffman, Allen <allen.hoffman@hq.dhs.gov<mailto:allen.hoffman@hq.dhs.gov>> wrote:
I just have trouble with this is a failure because “some” AT products might or might not support this at some point in time.

It is not a failure because certain AT products support or not support something. Use table markup for layout is a misuse of HTML semantics as table markup is for tabular data. That's how it is defined in HTML now and has always been (AFAIK)
HTML Table element semantics are unambiguously conveyed via accessibility APIs as data table semantics. <td> is short for 'table data cell'.

--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
Received on Monday, 2 June 2014 17:01:23 UTC

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