- From: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
- Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 10:32:49 -0400
- To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
[Andrew wrote] The conclusion that I'm coming to is that if one wants to have a significantly higher degree of certainty that AT will read the table correctly that they need to have the scope="row/col" or headers/id explicitly indicated for all of the headings. I am in favor of requiring scope for tables with more than one row or column of header cells. The stipulation is that this will only work if the scope applies to all cells in that row or column -- if it doesn't then id or headers must be used. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:25 AM To: David MacDonald; WCAG Subject: RE: EO Tutorials review 2) I think we need to address the issue of a two tier simple table which both JAWS and NVDA handle OK now. I think they should be allowed without headers and ids. I have an example here http://davidmacd.com/test/two-tier-simple-table.html David, I've been looking into this and I'm tossing around a few thoughts around tables. The questions that I think we're trying to address related to H63 are: 1) Is explicit structure required to meet SC 1.3.1 for all-non-simple tables? 2) Would using scope=row/col be enough? 3) Would using headers/id be enough? 4) Would using just <TH> be enough? This quickly gets into the question of accessibility support. I did find that your table worked well with NVDA (and assume that your other testing is correct), but I had made similar tables and found some issues. http://awkawk.github.io/scope_col_colgroup.html - this page has five tables. The most interesting ones are the first and last. The first one has only TH elements. It _almost_ reads correctly - JAWS seems to handle it correctly, but NVDA identifies the Massachusetts header as a row header. Voice over trips all over this table in other ways (including identifying the "chickens" cell as a header for "massachusetts"??). The tables where scope is explicitly identified work great. The final table was made because I sometimes hear that assistive technologies don't pay attention to scope, but it is clear that they do. I took a table with scope that was functioning properly and changed the attribute values for a few of the scopes and the results are rather interesting, but do indicate to me that the AT is using the scope attribute to determine table headings. Then when I tried your test, I get different results, and the only real difference is the cells in the upper left - I left mine unmerged and made then <td> as they aren't headings, and you have yours merged and made into a <th>. So there's something in the AT's heuristic for determining what is a heading and what is not that is choking on this change. The conclusion that I'm coming to is that if one wants to have a significantly higher degree of certainty that AT will read the table correctly that they need to have the scope="row/col" or headers/id explicitly indicated for all of the headings. What do you think? AWK
Received on Tuesday, 27 May 2014 14:33:32 UTC