Re: EO Tutorials review

> My Comments
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/
>
> 1) To address Andrews comment I would just put a period after the talk about Caption.
>
> "*Most *tables benefit from the use of a *caption *to describe the overall topic of a table. On *some *complex tables a summary can provide orientation or navigation."
>
> This is based on conversations with a user born blind who finds Statistics data easier to understand by reading the summary paragraph before the table. She feels tables are a lot harder for people born blind than those who acquire blindness.
>
> 2) I think we need to address the issue of a two tier simple table which
> both JAWS and NVDA handle OK now. I think they should be allowed without
> headers and ids. I have an example here
>
> http://davidmacd.com/test/two-tier-simple-table.html
>
> ===========
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/caption-summary/
>
> The summary attribute has been removed from HTML5 so it be removed, or qualified that it is being phased out.
>
>  The aria-describedby example Approach 3 shouod mention that the paragraph summary can be hidden with details/summary, or a conforming JavaScript show/hide for browsers that don't support details/summary yet. We've been dealing with this over on html5
>
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/tabular-data.html#table-descriptions-techniques
>
> ==========
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/irregular/
> I think example two with Jul, Aug, Sept etc... should have the abbreviation tag on those short forms for months, or aria label. Short abbreviations are often confusing to listen to in JAWS, NVDA etc...
>
> <tr>
>       <th scope="col">PayrollRef.   </th>
>       <th scope="col">Name</th>
>       <th scope="col" aria-label="July">Jul</th>
>       <th scope="col" aria-label="August">Aug</th>
>      etc.
>     </tr>
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/groups/
>
> Agree with Andrew. I'm beginning to think the figcaption might become the new longdesc, with no support and messed up implementation.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David MacDonald
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com
>
>  *  Adapting the web to all users*
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>

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>wrote:

>  Which if your comments would you say need to be addressed before initial
> publication, and which can be addressed in the context of WCAG WG review
> after publication? Michael
>
> I put “[BEFORE PUB]” in front of the most important ones (in my opinion)…
> Some of the others will have more of an effect on the perceived credibility
> of the resource, but may be less impactful on authors coming to read the
> content and learn how to address basic issues.
>
> AWK
>
> On 22/05/2014 1:41 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> My comments:
>
>
>
> TABLES
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/
>
> 1)       I'm concerned that they say that "most tables benefit from... summaries"  I'd say that most tables don't need or benefit from a summary.
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/simple/
>
> 1)       [BEFORE PUB] Table 2, with row and column headings needs scope, per H63 ("Note 1: For simple tables that have the headers in the first row or column then it is sufficient to simply use the TH elements without scope.")
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/irregular/
>
> 1)       Example 1 is fine with scope, but H63 explicitly allows scope to be omitted.
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/caption-summary/
>
> 1)       Approach 3 indicates that aria-describedby is only valid in HTML5
>
>
>
> IMAGES
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/
>
> 1)       There is little mention of aria and I get that this is a level that represents greater complexity so may be out of scope.  However, I think that a sentence that indicates that there are advanced techniques that people may be interested in would be helpful somewhere.
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/decorative/
>
> 1)        a null (empty) alt text - how about "a null alt value" (or "a null alt attribute value")?
>
> 2)       Link to ARIA technique for role="presentation"?
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/complex/
>
> 1)       It would be nice if example one didn't need to be scrolled horizontally
>
> 2)       Perhaps the long description link should include the #site-visitors-for-examplecom location-specific ID?
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/groups/
>
> 1)       [BEFORE PUB] I'm not sure that the grouping example for images with role="group" is quite ready.  Neither JAWS nor NVDA reads this as I'd hope.  JAWS makes mistakes and NVDA ignores the grouping as far as I can tell.  Is this ready to advocate for people to use? For that matter, what benefit are we expecting from grouping this way?  It seems that it is going to be difficult for users to remember what level of the grouping they are in for an example like this one.
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/decision-tree/
>
> 1)       [BEFORE PUB] I find some of the wording confusing.  "Is this image the only content of a link or form control?" and "include the communicative text of the image"
>
>  a.       How about "Use the alt attribute to include the meaningful text in the image (not text included for visual effect)."
>
> 2)       There is at least one common case that this tree would lead to the wrong result.
>
> a.       Image in a link that carries redundant information (e.g. < a href="survey.html">2014 Survey report (PDF)<img src="pdf.png" alt=""></a>)
>
> i.       This image does contribute meaning, but it is redundant to the link.  Maybe another "yes" case on the third bullet?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Joshue O Connor [mailto:joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:19 AM
>
> To: David MacDonald
>
> Cc: Kathy Wahlbin; Bailey, Bruce; Loretta Guarino Reid; WCAG Editors
>
> Subject: EO Tutorials review
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Thanks for agreeing to do a review of the new EO tutorials.
>
>
>
> We would like the individual reviews to be completed by next Tues (27th) so we can discuss during Tues-Fri of that week - then send final comments to EO by Monday 2nd of June. [1] [2]
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/
>
> [2] http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/
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