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Re: Aria-labelledby for form controls- examples

From: Sailesh Panchang <spanchang02@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1379002561.70666.YahooMailBasic@web125004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
To: james nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Hello James,
The third issue about the checkbox:
Before the example, there is a paragraph which explains  why the checkbox needs a specific identifier.
The 'check to compare' serves little or no purpose, I'd say even visually,  but it is part of the UI. 
But I'll reiterate as a VI user  that  It is text that can be safely be ignored by AT to avoid cluttering verbosity. So I believe the aria-labelledby markup is good as is. 
Ref: http://mars.dequecloud.com/demo/form-markup.htm#tech9

About role=group write-up:
What I have already submitted is a specific technique for grouping related form controls generally usable when one is constrained by design to use fieldset-legend technique. So please review  / discuss and consider for incorporating into techniques.
As I wrote it, it will be good if others can comment.
Also review other changes / comments :

On Wed, 9/11/13, james nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Aria-labelledby for form controls- examples
 To: "Sailesh Panchang" <spanchang02@yahoo.com>
 Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
 Date: Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 1:17 PM
 On 9/11/2013 7:52 AM, Sailesh Panchang wrote:
 >       On 9/10/2013
 >   7:54 AM, Sailesh Panchang
 >         wrote:
 > Please review:
 >   Aria-labelledby for form controls
 >   http://mars.dequecloud.com/demo/form-markup.htm#tech5
 >             JN:
 I believe this is no different from http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_concatenate_a_label_from_several_text_nodes#Example_2:_A_simple_data_table_with_text_inputs
 >       Is there anything I am
 missing that the example in the
 >   current      technique
 doesn't have?
 >   Sailesh 09/11:
 > The survey page for 'aria-labelledby for controls' had
 no techniques. It was marked 'TDB'.
 > That's why I sent these examples.
 > If there  were examples already available, they
 should have been on that survey page, no?
 JN 9/11:
 This title of this technique is misleading and needs fixing.
 This is an aria-labelledby technique intended at 1.1.1
 As such labels for form fields are not appropriate. We have
 other techniques for labeling form fields.
 >   http://mars.dequecloud.com/demo/form-markup.htm#tech7
 >             JN:
 We certainly need a role=group technique to cover
 >   this use case.
 >       Would someone like to
 volunteer to write this?
 > Sailesh 09/11:
 > There's one already  submitted in May 2013.
 > I had submitted a few techniques including one for the
 role=group as an alternative for fieldset-legend
 > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2-techs/2013May/
 > There's a problem with the technique submission form
 which I had conveyed to Andrew and code had not got
 submitted alright.
 > So a Word doc was sent to Andrew with my recent
 submissions / comments  a few weeks ago. See attached.
 > A few times, I requested that these be reviewed.
 JN 9/11: I haven't seen this and it certainly hasn't been
 passed to the task force for consideration. When I get time
 I will try to add this to the wiki so it can be worked a
 little more by the TF (or you can do this yourself if you
 >             JN:
 I think this example needs modification and then
 >   could fit      nicely
 into the Using        aria-labelledby to
 concatencate multiple text nodes
 >   case.
 >   As it stands there is no indication to
 AT that checking
 >   the checkbox      does
 a compare operation so the labelledby needs to
 >   point to the header and the checkbox
 label and not just the header.
 > Sailesh 09/11:
 > Well the aria-labelledby works fine for the checkbox
 and conveys its purpose clearly.
 JN 9/11: The label on its own could be to buy the item or
 indeed any other usage. The label needs to include this. I
 do not think the functionality of the checkbox is clear
 without this.
 > There is also an explicit label 'check to compare'
 which is read when one arrows down (out of forms mode).
 JN 9/11: I'm not sure we can rely on this - of we could our
 lives would be much easier. How about a compromise where the
 check to compare is the aria-descibedby reference?
 > Certainly instruction that you can compare 2 or 4 items
 will be conveyed somewhere at the start / end of the form.
 JN 9/11: If this is the case then this should be in the
 > That does not  have to be conveyed by every
 > Based on your argument, every form control's label
 needs to convey which form it belongs to and what will be
 accomplished by submitting the form.
 JN 9/11: this is not an equivalent argument. The visually
 associated label for the checkbox is "Check to compare". Not
 providing this to AT is a clear violation of 1.3.1.
 > i.e. on a login form the label for username will need
 to convey that it will be submitted as part of the login
 > If every checkbox were to convey that once checked it
 will be used for comparison,  that will be a lot of
 verbosity and a lot of problem.
 > When you have a list of emails displayed  on a Web
 page, one can check them and delete or move or mark as spam
 etc. The checkbox's label does not convey this.
 JN 9/11: Here there is not a visually associated label. If
 it is important for a sighted user to have the "check to
 compare" text then this should be provided for a screen
 reader user too. If this is not important then the text need
 not be provided to anyone.
 > Thanks and regards,
 > Sailesh
 >         James
            Secondly in
 the matter of aria-labelledby for non text
 >   content:
 >   - The first example has no alt
 >   - The second one: seldom  is
 there text taht says '4 out
 >   of 5' for *rating it is only the
 >   But, yes, the  example is a good
 one if it is indeed marked
 >   up that way with multiple star images
 and text alongside.
 >     About use of role=headings:
 >   It appears it is more of a remediation
 technique to be used
 >   only when HTML h<n> cannot be
 used like for h7 as
 >   illustrated?
 >   Need to think of more used cases I
 >     Thanks,
 >   Sailesh
Received on Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:16:31 UTC

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