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Re: 2.4.3, 1.3.2

From: Loretta Guarino Reid <lorettaguarino@google.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 23:11:06 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHu5OWZ72LSeZHJayp9kQMZMogGTMA+fqwQ5EGN3YDKW_QWrbA@mail.gmail.com>
To: adam solomon <adam.solomon2@gmail.com>
Cc: Sailesh Panchang <spanchang02@yahoo.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
I think you are saying that because the default tab order would conform to
WCAG, there is no need for a technique that changes the tab order.

But changing the tab order is permissible under WCAG as long as the
resulting order "makes sense". And if the author thinks that changing the
tab order improves the usability, we want to make it clear that this still
conforms. So although the author did not need to change the tab order in any
of the H4 examples, changing it in these ways does not violate WCAG.

Is there something different about tabindex in HTML5? If not, we may not
need an additional technique. We may just need to see whether H4 applies to
HTML5, as well, or can be modified so that it is clear that it also applies
to HTML5.

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:03 PM, adam solomon <adam.solomon2@gmail.com>wrote:

> I guess I am just missing something. I still feel that sufficient
> techniques, though not being the only option for satisfying a success
> criterion, do in fact come to correct some deficiency in the web page. Sure,
> there are other ways to do it, but the deficiency needs to be addressed one
> way or the other. In H4, there is no deficiency by WCAG standards. Since the
> reading order is acceptable (if it weren't, we couldn't use this technique
> anyway since it violates 1.3.2), the focus order must also be acceptable by
> definition, and the added benefit of reading one person at a time in the
> bride/groom example adds no WCAG success to the web page, and addresses no
> WCAG deficiency.
> If you all still think that this is a valid technique, then I will draft
> the html5 technique in accordance with this one, and hopefully have it ready
> for this week's meeting.
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Loretta Guarino Reid <
> lorettaguarino@google.com> wrote:
>> Adam, I am still having trouble understanding why you think the inclusion
>> of the HTML tabindex technique is a problem.
>> I think you are claiming that it is unnecessary? That it is always
>> possible to use a different technique to satisfy the success criterion? Am I
>> understanding that correctly?
>> Loretta
>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 10:46 PM, adam solomon <adam.solomon2@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> Sailesh,
>>> If one would expect to fill out the form one person at a time, would the
>>> default table layout (not taking into consideration focus order) not violate
>>> 1.3.2? After all, the programmatically determined reading order would read
>>> the cells of the table row by row, not person by person. If so, then this is
>>> not a sufficient technique.
>>> We must then conclude that there is no violation of 1.3.2, and the
>>> author's tabindexing is only a preference, in which a case this technique is
>>> totally irrelevant.
>>> Either way, there is a problem.
>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 6:07 AM, Loretta Guarino Reid <
>>> lorettaguarino@google.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Sailesh Panchang <
>>>> spanchang02@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Loretta,
>>>>> In principle, if you content:
>>>>> >But the use of H4 is not required for SC 2.4.3...
>>>>> Then why is it listed as a sufficient technique?
>>>> Because it is sufficient. You may use it, but you may use some other
>>>> sufficient technique.
>>>>> Adam,
>>>>> Well in that example of groom and bride, without tabindex, one may
>>>>> content that reading order is meaningful. But if one navigates across fields
>>>>> row-wise, it does affect meaning or operation. As I said in my last email,
>>>>> the intent is not to compare first names but actually enter data into a
>>>>> form. I imagine most would want to be done with data for one person then
>>>>>  input data for the next. While filling out paper forms too,I'd complete the
>>>>> form for person#1 and then person#2 and not fill out first name for person#1
>>>>> then jump to form for the other chap and fill out his first name. That is
>>>>> not logical. On a Web page the fields may be placed next to each other
>>>>> visually but they are meant to be navigated "logically" for person#1 and
>>>>> then #2. It is not the author's choice or reading  order... the author is
>>>>> constrained by layout / design and must use tabindex (h4) to ensure
>>>>> navigation does not affect operation.
>>>>> Sailesh
Received on Monday, 15 August 2011 06:11:38 UTC

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