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Re: Do buttons need to follow 2.4.4 or 2.4.6?

From: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:29:00 -0700
Message-ID: <4E39A17C.1040302@oracle.com>
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
On 8/3/2011 11:47 AM, Loretta Guarino Reid wrote:
> As James said, 4.1.2 is about the "how". There is no requirement in 
> 4.1.2 about the quality of the name.
> I believe Flash27 is listed for 2.4.4 because there is no "link" 
> element in Flash, and buttons are used for this purpose. Andrew, is 
> this right?
Doesn't using a button in this way fail 4.1.2 (assuming there is no 
other way to convey the role of a link in flash)?
> I think button naming is covered by this part of SC 1.1.1:
> ** " If non-text content is a control or accepts user input, then it 
> has a name <http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#namedef> 
> that describes its purpose."
Sometimes there is little semantic distinction between a button and a 
link (there are cases where something really does both an action and 
navigation so either semantic could be appropriate). In these cases the 
conformance requirement seems to be higher if the author chooses to use 
a button vs choosing to use a link, when the end result for the user is 
really the same whichever they choose.

A specific example of this is a button in a table that lists employees 
which would be accessed by their manager. The table contains employee 
details including the employee name which is properly marked up as the 
row header and a column which contains a link to "Start appraisal 
process". This takes me to a new page where I enter information relating 
to the appraisal process. I could make arguments as to why this "link" 
could be a button or a link but I believe this is not clear-cut.

If I choose to make this a button I believe I need to label the button 
as "Start appraisal process for James Nurthen" - if it is a link (to 
meet A conformance) it need only be labeled "Start appraisal process" as 
it appears within the context of a properly marked up row header.

Do I have this correct?

> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:39 AM, adam solomon <adam.solomon2@gmail.com 
> <mailto:adam.solomon2@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     Although links have their own technique regarding descriptive
>     text, such a technique for buttons seems to be absent. Considering
>     this absence, however, 4.1.2 does, in my opinion, address the
>     issue by implication. When one uses nondescriptive text for an
>     button, the result is an inherent and complete lack of
>     programmatic determination for the name property (since an
>     erroneous name is tantamount to an absent one), thus failing the
>     success criterion.
>     On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 5:36 PM, James Nurthen
>     <james.nurthen@oracle.com <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>> wrote:
>         4.1.2 addresses the technical "how". It does not address the
>         quality of the text which is addressed for other control types
>         by 2.4.4 or 2.4.6 respectively.
>         On Aug 2, 2011, at 12:49 AM, adam solomon wrote:
>>         http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20101014/H91
>>         would seem to indicate that it is a problem of 4.1.2. You
>>         have brought up a good point - 2.4.4 speaks specifically
>>         about links, not buttons, though the spirit of it could
>>         certainly pertain to buttons. We should really clarify this
>>         point and decide if that flash technique is really in the
>>         right place.
>>         On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:51 AM, James Nurthen
>>         <james.nurthen@oracle.com <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>>
>>         wrote:
>>             Button labels (whether from the text of the button
>>             element or the value of button input elements) don't seem
>>             to fit into either 2.4.4 (link purpose in context) or
>>             2.4.6 (Headings and Labels).
>>             Does the button text need to fully identify the purpose
>>             of the button (for example when buttons are repeated on
>>             multiple rows of a table to perform an action on the row)
>>             or is it sufficient for the button to identify the
>>             purpose within the context of the correctly marked up row
>>             header?
>>             Note that FLASH27 (FLASH27: Providing button labels that
>>             describe the purpose of a button ) is explicitly stated
>>             as being a sufficient technique for 2.4.4. Can I extend
>>             this to imply that HTML buttons are covered by 2.4.4 too?
>>             Regards,
>>             James
Received on Wednesday, 3 August 2011 19:29:45 UTC

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