- From: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
- Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:13:57 -0600
- To: "Andrew Kirkpatrick" <akirkpat@adobe.com>, "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <6EED8F7006A883459D4818686BCE3B3B02A99B4D@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu>
Andrew,
If I read you correctly, you're arguing:
(1) that "multimedia" should include any content that uses more than one
media type in a single presentation (e.g., a conventional Web page with
background audio); and
(2) that the proposed definition (without your "and/or") doesn't capture
cases where the media are not "synchronized."
I'm always a little concerned about constructions like "and/or"-- I
worry about how translatable they are and whether they pose difficulties
for people reading WCAG in a language that isn't their native language.
Would "synchronized or combined" address your concern?
Thanks,
John
"Good design is accessible design."
Dr. John M. Slatin, Director
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin
FAC 248C
1 University Station G9600
Austin, TX 78712
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524
email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
Web <http://www.ital.utexas.edu/>
http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility
-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:56 PM
To: Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: multimedia definition
OK, but I don't agree with your example. I'd argue that with either
definition that the page with links and background audio is multimedia.
Only the author can verify whether the audio is synchronized or not, so
this may not be very testable.
The page might be low-tech multimedia, but it should be evaluated by an
author to determine whether captions or descriptions are needed because
of the audio.
AWK
_____
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:00 PM
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: multimedia definition
Hi Andrew,
Your And/Or is a good edit. But the word "Synchronized" is important
or else a page with links (interaction) combined with an audio playing
in the background would be multimedia - and that is not our intent. It
is only if the audio is synchronized with the interaction (the
interaction has to take place at a certain time in the audio
presentation) that it qualifies. Ditto with audio and graphics unless
the graphic presentation is synchronized with the audio.
So incorporating your 'and/or" edit we end up with
Multimedia:
Content that includes one type of time dependent media (e.g. audio or
video) synchronized with interactive elements and/or with another type
of media (e.g. text, audio, graphics, or video)
Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center
University of Wisconsin-Madison
_____
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:07 PM
To: John M Slatin; Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: multimedia definition
suggested change:
Content that includes one type of time dependent media (e.g. audio or
video) combined with interactive elements and/or with another type of
media (e.g. text, audio, graphics, or video)
"synchronized" seems awkward so I put 'combined' to genericize it one
notch. I made the 'or' an 'and/or' since both are possible.
Other than that it sounds good to me (and these are pretty nit-picky).
awk
_____
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of John M Slatin
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:05 PM
To: John M Slatin; Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: multimedia definition
Gregg and I took our discussion off-list for a while and hammered out a
definition of multimedia we think will work:
<proposed>
One type of time dependent media (e.g. audio or video) synchronized
with interaction or with another type of media (e.g. text, audio,
graphics, or video)
</proposed>
If everyone can live with this, it will replace the current definition
in the Glossary (below):
<blockquote>
For the purposes of these guidelines, multimedia refers to combined
audio and video presentations. It also includes audio-only and
video-only presentations
that include interaction.
</blockquote>
John
"Good design is accessible design."
Dr. John M. Slatin, Director
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin
FAC 248C
1 University Station G9600
Austin, TX 78712
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524
email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
Web <http://www.ital.utexas.edu/> http://www.utexas.edu
<http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility> /research/accessibility
-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of John M Slatin
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 1:53 PM
To: Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: multimedia definition
Gregg,
The first phrase in the proposed definition (both yours and mine) is:
<q>Several different media,</q>
So even if people believe that "interactive audio" is one medium and
"audio" is a different medium, we're covered by that first phrase.
Here it is again:
<proposed>
Several different media, including at least one time based media type,
integrated in a single presentation. Media may include text, audio
(including interactive
audio), graphics, and video (including interactive video).
</proposed>
Or people might be more comfortable with the following:
<slightRevision>
Two or more different media, including at least one time based media
type, integrated in a single presentation. Media may include text,
audio, including interactive
audio, graphics, video,and interactive video.
</slightRevision>
I'd prefer to put interactive audio and interactive video in
parentheses, as in the first version above. But I like starting with
"Two or more different media " since it clearly covers the most common
multimedia format, i.e., video plus a soundtrack ("several" usually
means more than 2 ...). So here's one more try:
<oneMoreTry>
Two or more different media, including at least one time based media
type, integrated in a single presentation. Media may include text,
audio (including interactive
audio), graphics, and video (including interactive video).
</oneMoreTry>
John
"Good design is accessible design."
Dr. John M. Slatin, Director
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin
FAC 248C
1 University Station G9600
Austin, TX 78712
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524
email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
Web <http://www.ital.utexas.edu/> http://www.utexas.edu
<http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility> /research/accessibility
-----Original Message-----
From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 1:00 PM
To: John M Slatin; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: multimedia definition
Interesting
But if interactive audio is media then it isn't multimedia. And
according to our definition (or what we thought needed to be covered by
multimedia) interactive audio or interactive video needed to be in
there.....
So we would have to rewrite all our guidelines to say "Multimedia and
media mixed with interaction."
Oops that doesn't work.
It would have to be "Multimedia and time based media mixed with
interaction."
Or
"Multimedia and video or audio mixed with interaction."
Hmm. Hard to parse the ands and ors
I think we need to keep interaction in multimedia.
It goes back to the list form which is a terrible format for definitions
but....
Multimedia
audio or video synchronized with interactivity or another media type
including text, images, (video), (audio), etc.
OR
Multimedia
A time based media (such as video or sound) synchronized with
interactivity or another media type including text, images, video,
audio, etc.
Gregg
-- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center
University of Wisconsin-Madison
_____
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of John M Slatin
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:41 PM
To: Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: multimedia definition
Gregg responded to my proposed rewrite of the multimedia definition:
<blockquote>
Actually the interactivity as a medium came from Wikipedia.
I thought that was interesting because it is necessary as a media for
our definition as well.
Interactive audio for example is considered multimedia. And it
consists of audio and interaction.
</blockquote>
I'd be fine with listing "interactive audio" and "interactive video" as
separate media.
It makes me nervous to treat Wikopedia as an authoritative source,
precisely because it advertises itself as "the encyclopedia that can be
edited by anyone."
The Wikopedia definition of "multimedia" links to an article on
"interactivity" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactivity) which is
flagged as needing work. What's there now does not describe
interactivity as a medium.
So here's a modified version of the rewrite I proposed:
<newProposal>
Several different media, including at least one time based media type,
integrated in a single presentation. Media may include text, audio
(including interactive audio), graphics, and video (including
interactive video).
</newProposal>
I deleted the third sentence from my previous proposal since
interactivity is now incorporated into the list of media types.
I also deleted animation from the list of multimedia types since our
definition of "video" (accepted 8 December) includes animation. But it
wouldn't bother me to include it explicitly here if people want to do
that.
John
Received on Wednesday, 14 December 2005 17:14:55 UTC