- From: Michele Diodati <michele.diodati@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:06:46 +0100
- To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Hi Gregg, you wrote: > I don't follow you. > In a hierarchical relationship the parent cannot be a child of the child (or > a grandchild). In a situation that is a web you will end up with this > situation - and that doesn't match any definition of hierarchy that I know > of. > > Am I missing something? Please, can you show me an example of a relationship in which the parent ends up being the child of the child? In my opinion, the hierarchical viewpoint is only one of many possible viewpoints about structural relationships between objects in the real world. Hierarchical relationships tell us about the status of inclusion or exclusion of a given object, or category of objects, with respect a given feature, category, object, container, etc. On the strenght of hierarchical relationships, we may know if two object are siblings in a given hierarchy or if one of the two is an ancestor (or a descendant) of the other, or vice versa. As I said in a previous message, the presence of a visible hierarchical relationship between two objects, as two different chapters of the same book, depends on the level of abstraction (depth, universality) at which we consider the relationship between the two objects. For example, between two brothers there is an evident horizontal relationship: both are sons of the same father; on the contrary, between two not related human beings it seems that no hierarchical (horizontal or vertical) relationship exist. But, if we enlarge our viewpoint, and consider them for example as inhabitants of the same town, we can put them in a hierarchical relationship. It' a viewpoint issue. Depending upon our viewpoint, two object can be the former child of the latter under a certain respect, and the latter child of the former under a different respect. According to me, it may resolve the ambiguity you report. However, it seems to me that the core of the problem is not whether non-hierarchical relationships exist or not. The core of the problem is to eliminate from WCAG 2.0 any ambiguity about the context in which the word "structure" is used. GL 1.3 says "Ensure that information, functionality, and structure are separable from presentation." Here I understand "structure" as a question of markup: code your web page in such a manner that you can easily split structural code from presentational code. On the contrary, the definition of "structure" in the glossary of the same document says: "A book is divided into chapters, paragraphs, lists, etc (...) A bicycle is divided into wheels and a frame (...)." Here "structure" is the series of relationships existing between the parts of objects belonging to the real world. It is a great contradiction, and harmful for the comprehensibility and applicability of the spec. In the real world (printed, spoken, on screen documents) structure is not really separable from presentation. Instead, at the code level, there is no problem splitting structural code from presentational code. I know it is a bit difficult, but I don't know how to explain the problem in an easier way. Ciao, Michele -- http://www.diodati.org
Received on Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:07:19 UTC