- From: Kerstin Goldsmith <kerstin.goldsmith@oracle.com>
- Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:15:20 -0800
- To: "Montgomery, Gordon" <Gordon.Montgomery@Staples.com>
- Cc: "Craddock, Michael P" <michael.p.craddock@BOEING.COM>, "Yvette P. Hoitink" <y.p.hoitink@heritas.nl>, Doyle Burnett <dburnett@sesa.org>, w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
- Message-ID: <3FCFC008.1050005@oracle.com>
But are these testable? -Kerstin Montgomery, Gordon wrote: > Surely the deciding factors are: > 1. context > 2. audience > > Firstly, any ambiguous words should be marked up - not only in the > accessibility sense but where those words are not core to the language > in question - and for all possible user types. The markup should be: > <foreign>...</foreign> or some such meaningful tag. > > To decide if a word or phase is foreign to the language context it is > written in, one criteria would be to see if the author's spell and > grammar checker picks it up. That's, of course, if the author does not > know themselves that the word is "foreign" [in the broadest sense of > that word]. > > So: looking at the ambiguity of /résumé/ > > 1. Context: > When a user has their browser set to "french" then all the french words > around our "ambiguous" word should guide how a screen reader reads the > "ambiguous" word - i.e. as regular french > > Conversely, "le weekend" is pronounced with French intonation by > French people. > > Where /résumé/ appears in an English language context then by default > the local language intonation should apply e.g. English. > > 2. Audience: > When /résumé/ appears in a non-French language context then the > audience rule applies. > There needs to be not only a language setting but and > internationalization setting that says: "pronounce borrowed foreign > words with their "native/foreign" or "local" intontation. > > Finally, usually as a block of text is translated from one language to > another the foreign/borrowed/ambiguous words remain the same. > This situation is only trumped when the context language is the same > as the ambiguous word or there is a more commonly used local word in > the context > language that better captures the sense of the word for the context > audience. > > [i]US English > [ii]UK English > [iii]French > [iv]German > > [i] Where is your résumé? > [ii] Where is your CV? > [iii] Ou est ton curriculum vitae? [missing accents] > [iv] Wo ist dein Lebenslauf? > > > Thanks, > Gordon > --------------------- > Gordon Montgomery > Usability Manager > +508 253 2405 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kerstin Goldsmith [mailto:kerstin.goldsmith@oracle.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:15 PM > To: Craddock, Michael P > Cc: Yvette P. Hoitink; Doyle Burnett; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org > Subject: Re: Examples of language changes in websites > > I think we need to bring this back out to the question "in > question," though - here, we have only solved one small problem. > Can we legislate this kind of change? And, if yes, or if no, how > do we answer Richard Ishida's question: what constitutes language > change that MUST be marked up, and what constitutes language > change that SHOULD be marked up, etc. > > -kerstin > > Craddock, Michael P wrote: > >>We've run into terminology issues here at Boeing, not as a screen reader problem but as a usability issue, and have recently switched from "sitemap" (one word, which is common) to "text index" which we found more commonly used and descriptive. Maybe this small change could help? >> >>Thank you, >>michaelcraddock >>The Boeing Company >>multimediadesignengineer >>p 312.544.2931 | c 312.371.8134 | f 312.544.2082 | w www.boeing.com/ >> >>"doog si efil"-mirror me >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Yvette P. Hoitink [mailto:y.p.hoitink@heritas.nl] >>Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:23 PM >>To: 'Doyle Burnett'; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org >>Subject: RE: Examples of language changes in websites >> >> >>In Dutch, the word 'sitemap' (one word) is used a lot. This is yet another >>example of the Dutch habit of glueing words together, which is gramatically >>correct in Dutch. This is so normal for me I didn't even recognize this as >>not being entirely English... >> >>Dutchmen pronounce 'sitemap' with the English pronounciation. It is not >>(yet) in the Dutch standard wordlist. Just like the word 'cadeaushoppen', >>this is another example of a word whose language cannot be identified within >>the current HTML standards since it's neither Dutch nor English. >> >>Yvette Hoitink >>CEO Heritas, Enschede, The Netherlands >>E-mail: y.p.hoitink@heritas.nl >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org >>>[mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Doyle Burnett >>>Sent: donderdag 4 december 2003 20:00 >>> >>>I believe the term is site map (two words) and yes, if >>>written as a single word, sitemap - screen readers will not >>>pronounce the word as would be desired. >>> >>>Doyle >>> >>> >>>On 12/4/03 8:17 AM, "Kynn Bartlett" <kynn@idyllmtn.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 04:44 AM, Ineke van der >>>> >>>> >>>Maat wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>Sitemap is not an official word in German or Dutch and can be >>>>>pronounced by screenreaders in Dutch as sietemap (ie as ea in sea >>>>>,just like bietensap or fietstas). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>English screenreaders sometimes have said "sigh tuh map", for this >>>>word, rather than "site map". >>>> >>>>--Kynn >>>> >>>> >> >> >>
Received on Thursday, 4 December 2003 18:15:37 UTC