- From: Wendy A Chisholm <wendy@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:57:38 -0500
- To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
IRC log at: http://www.w3.org/2003/12/03-wai-wcag-irc.html Summary of action items: ACTION: wendy find out if "work has ended" in 7.1.2 of W3C process document means "stabilized" or "discontinued" - and how that applies to our use of WG Notes to publish techniques docs. http://www.w3.org/2003/06/Process-20030618/tr.html#q71 ACTION: wendy follow-up on s. african contacts from tom ACTION: tom work with lisa on editing rdf techs. ACTION: chris will look into who is available for testing (at atrc) ACTION: ben set up form to collect info about tools for testing (and gather volunteers to test) Next week's agenda: RDF and CSS Techniques. Invite Lisa and Tim to attend. chris reports on latest work: the validator now runs several of the checks. has been looking at information about testing for color. jenae has been reviewing the QA documents. we're probably most interested in test guidelines. there are 7 documents. intro, operational guidelines, specification guidelines, test guidelines. depending on your role, (editing) may want to read spec guidelines. others may need to read all. also have a "qa process document template" not clear if it is for every doc or the working group. wac gives summary of f2f meeting discussion w/karl and olivier (from qa wg and ig). Olivier will be the QA to WCAG liaison, the WCAG WG needs to choose a WCAG to QA liaison (Kerstin expressed interest at the F2F meeting). Some of their documents are in Candidate Recommendation right now, and we will be providing feedback and acting as an implementation test for them. Olivier will be reviewing our documents and working group process through the QA lens. tom still plans to write client use cases. then can say "this checkpoint" or "this technique" is applicable to x, y, z use case. use cases: to justify what we're doing. making sure that what we produce is helping clients. Tom attended meetings of task forces 2 and 3 at the EuroAccessibility mtg. task force 2: producing atomic tests (similar to what Chris is doing) - granular level, what constitutes compliance to wcag 1.0. task force 3: developing a methodology to compare tools to the list produced by tf2. which tools complete which tests. tf2: alistair garrison is the chair. would like to finish before the end of the year (at least for 1st round). spent a couple of days talking about the 1st 5 checkpoints and hammering out how to identify a text equivalent. starting from scratch on some of these. many members brought checks with them. took brief look at chris' work. Michael is meeting with Alistair on Thursday and will report next week about that meeting. There is concern that they are working off of WCAG 1.0 Techniques, which are out of date. Also, concern that WCAG 1.0 has known errata and request to publish an update. How can we clarify how WCAG 2.0 techniques apply to WCAG 1.0 (both to ease the transition from 1.0 to 2.0, as well as to keep 1.0 techniques up-to-date)? We have discussed a mapping in XML source to both WCAG 1.0 and WCAG 2.0. even if we don't backport the documents, mention somehow that more up-to-date techniqeus are available. for people who aren't following inner-workings of WG, the documents they will use are 1.0 techniques. there are some things that have been deprecated, put note in 1.0 document or completely update them? there was agreement w/alistair's point about updating 1.0 documents. even if finish wcag 2.0 by end of summer, becoming part of policy will take a while. swiss law references "the latest guidelines from w3c." italians recently passed something, reference 1.0. many governments are not likely to do what swiss did, because of fear of instability. it also doesn't solve the problem, the latest is a rec and not our working drafts. (according to the process document) it is possible to release a "revised recommendation." The issue is that it would take some of our attention into that process, rather than WCAG 2.0 development. There are also issues with messaging and perception of instability. there is some confusion about techniques documents remaining working drafts or maturing to notes. wendy clarifies of use of "note" in new process document. "note" is still a possible end-state, but it is now qualified (working group note, interest group note, coordination group note as well as member submission and team submission). Before, all of these were labeled "note" and thus all carried the same weight. Now, "working group note" indicates consensus by a working group while "team submission" is something written by a W3C team member. The only use of "note" that will end is the unqualified use of the label. action: wendy find out if "work has ended" in 7.1.2 means "stabilized" or "discontinued" - and how that applies to our use of WG Notes to publish techniques docs. lisa - would like some help with rdf techniques. lisa looking for review. try to get charles involved (at least review). http://www.ubaccess.com/rdf.html action: tom work with lisa on editing rdf techs. Tim joined a couple weeks ago saying he's been allocated time from NIST Just did a review of old CSS techniques === gateway techniques tom has bunch of stuff to put into the doc. recent list discussion about scripts. what part of the discussion goes into script techniques and which into gateway? what about svg? e.g., how do screen readers handle disabled forms? if svg or html require scripting to enable parts of the page, it is going to be inaccessible. This relates to the question of whether script being enabled is mandatory for accessibility. WCAG 1 requires page function if script not supported, does/should WCAG 2? css and scripting, always used w/other technologies, thus should we produce self-standing techs docs or chapters w/in other techs? support of script an accessibility issue? how essential is the function? determine if it is easiest to say "all these things are inaccessible, rest fine." or "these are the only things can do, all else bad" need to tease out which get handled in script techs and which in gateway. e.g., gateway: script supported by user agent, general info, e.g., "roll-over scripts tend to be ok, if you use disable attributes..." script techs: the script code that enables form controls, dynamic menus, and specific dos and don'ts when we refer to script techs we are talking about ECMAScript (rather than vbscript or others) proposal: if use script to enable parts of a page, make sure that is not disabled by default. e.g., print icon. script generates it, only activated by script. if don't have script, don't get it. only people who see it have javascript on, thus don't run into issue of having a button that is unusable if scripts aren't running. the script doesn't provide essential function, thus an elegant solution. what about web applications? if no script support, can't use. e.g., web app (windows app ported to html) if you need that rich function, will you need to find server-side solution? discussion that for validation, ought to have server-side backup, but what about interaction? Should there be the capability of falling back to less rich but still nominally accessible functionality? Example of web app that relies on scripts is the tree view of a file system. An approach to the tree control is that it's done as nested lists, using CSS to format as tree and Javascript to provide the functionality. The fallback is that there are regular links that do the annoying refresh or whatever, but it still works concern about legacy systems and how difficult it can be to change. What about browsers where scripts don't function? how do we address that today? in 1.0, proper decision to say sites must work w/out scripts. what do today? have to do the research. how many people using browsers that dn't support scripting? unattainable data? logs know in theory if browser supports, but what about peple who have disabled it? there is a way to test, but people would have to hit a specific site. tom will have some people who can test browsers and asst. techs. suggestion to add a component to the techniques product to keep track of tests that need to be done? action: chris will look into who is available for testing (at atrc) need a list of user agent and asst tech combos that support techniques? when test for assitive technology and browser, there is a large number of combinations, versions, platforms, etc. do we have a core list of user agents that we want to be sure that each technique work with? i.e., for it to be included, a technique must work with x,y,z browser and/or assistive technology and user agent combination. do we need a lowest common denominator to test with? come up with a list of software and hardware that people (in the WCAG WG) have and can use for testing? Information we would need about each product: name, version, platform, manufacturer, hardware configuration (braille/audio, laptop/desktop, sound card, system, os, etc.) interesting to see what list of tools we come up with. concern that the only tools we'll come up with (at this time) will be english-based. will need to find other testers. we met some potential testers while in japan - possibly a way to get people involved and bridge communication. action: ben set up form to collect info about tools for testing (and gather volunteers to test) -- wendy a chisholm world wide web consortium web accessibility initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI/ /--
Received on Wednesday, 3 December 2003 14:38:21 UTC